1st Gen Ride Floats after lowering

[Tjhoward84]

Hello all,

I have a 1st gen Expy (1999, 4x4 with the factory 4-wheel air ride suspension) with a full Lightning drive train swap (yes, its a lot of fun to drive). I am the original owner (bought it in Aug. 1999) and will never get rid of this machine.

I lowered it a few years ago using the Ground Force kit (new torsion bars keys in the front and new relocating bracket in the rear). I also have 22" wheels that have 12" wide tires. The tires are so wide and have so little side wall height they catch all of the ruts and groves in the road and throw the truck all over the place. Also, the truck seems to "float" even on good, non-groved roads. I am thinking that since I lowered it the torsion bars are not "twisted" enough causing the truck to float. I have heard that changing the torsion bars out with F250LD (Light Duty) torsion bars should fix the "floating" issue.

Has anyone done this swap?

 

[Tjhoward84]

I've read where the torsion bars from 1997 - 1999 F250LD (Light Duty) will fix this problem. They are referred to as the 7700 Torsion Bars with a spring code of 7. The Expeditions that came with the 4 corner load leveling air suspension have softer torsion bars so then you unload them to get the truck to sit lower, it tends to make the front end "float".

The problem is the 7700 torsion bars are no longer available. I would have to get them from a junk yard. I really don't want to go thru the trouble of getting them, pulling the old ones out and installing the used ones only to find out this won't fix my problem.

Anyone have experience with this?

 

[Bain64]

You might have better luck with responses posting in the more general '1st gen forum' instead of 'suspension'. Good luck!

 

[SnuffThePunkz]

Okay, first of all jealous of the lightning swap.

Second are you still running the air setup or did you switch it for conventional shocks and coils?

 

[Tjhoward84]

Okay, first of all jealous of the lightning swap.

Second are you still running the air setup or did you switch it for conventional shocks and coils?

Still have the air bags in the rear and the air shocks in the front.

 

[SnuffThePunkz]

Alright, I'm trying to locate the lowering kit you used to see how it was done. But the website doesn't list "ground force".

 

[Tjhoward84]

Alright, I'm trying to locate the lowering kit you used to see how it was done. But the website doesn't list "ground force".

The lowering kits from Ground Force is no longer offered. It was fairly basic - new torsion bar keys for the front and a bracket relocating the rear bracket.

 

[SnuffThePunkz]

Got any photos of the rear end?

How it was relocated, sway bar angles etc?

I suspect the kit did nothing to correct the factory angles and has removed the preload on the suspension, and cranked up the preload on the sway bars, and they are giving you issues.

 

[Tjhoward84]

Got any photos of the rear end?

How it was relocated, sway bar angles etc?

I suspect the kit did nothing to correct the factory angles and has removed the preload on the suspension, and cranked up the preload on the sway bars, and they are giving you issues.

The bracket that came with the kit simply relocated the "on/off" switch for the rear air bags and allows them to deflate more when the truck is off. When the truck turns on, the bag inflate to normal height. That is the only change in the rear.

 

[SnuffThePunkz]

Are you sure?

Most systems would simply set a new normal ride height by lowering the trigger so it thinks it is normal with less air in the system. Which would result in softer bags and more body roll.

How much of a lowering kit did you get?

 

[1955moose]

Im with ***** on this one. It sounds like your bags aren't getting loaded proper. If your going to stay with air springs, you've got to get the necessary force on them or maybe switch over to a coil spring setup. Theirs a lot of physics, and geometry in making a proper riding/handling vehicle. And unfortunately you've disprupted that balance. When you bounce on the four corners, does it have the usual 1 bounce and stop? Or does it continue bouncing like a 1960's pogo stick?

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[Tjhoward84]

Are you sure?

Most systems would simply set a new normal ride height by lowering the trigger so it thinks it is normal with less air in the system. Which would result in softer bags and more body roll.

How much of a lowering kit did you get?

The GroundForce kit says it lowers a 4x4 Expedition by 2".

 

[Tjhoward84]

Im with ***** on this one. It sounds like your bags aren't getting loaded proper. If your going to stay with air springs, you've got to get the necessary force on them or maybe switch over to a coil spring setup. Theirs a lot of physics, and geometry in making a proper riding/handling vehicle. And unfortunately you've disprupted that balance. When you bounce on the four corners, does it have the usual 1 bounce and stop? Or does it continue bouncing like a 1960's pogo stick?

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The "float" I'm feeling is in the front end. The 4x4 Expeditions with the factory 4 corner load leveling suspension (like mine) come with air shocks up front and air bags in the rear. I really don't think the floating I'm experiencing is because my air shocks are not fully filled. In fact, the suspension pumps up when the vehicle is turned on but the ride height is about 2 inches lower. I really think its because there is less preload on the torsion bars and the spring constant of the torsion bars that come with the 4 corner load leveling suspension is considerably less compared to non 4 corner load leveling suspension torsion bars. I would love to find a set of torsion bars from a 1997-2000 F250LD truck. I think those would work great.

 

[ExplorerTom]

Sway-a-way makes replacement sway bars. Not cheap. But you might be the type of person to spend the money.

 

[Tjhoward84]

Sway-a-way makes replacement sway bars. Not cheap. But you might be the type of person to spend the money.

At this point with what I have in this truck and the fact that I never plan on getting rid of it, I'm not too worried about the cost. My only issue with the Sway-a-Way torsion bars is they're rated at a 16% increase in stiffness and for $1,300 that seems a little steep to cross my fingers they fix the problem. If someone could tell me they had the same issue as I'm dealing with and using these bars solved the problem, I would have them tomorrow.

 

[1955moose]

Here's a dumb question? If you think the F250 torsion bars are the ticket, do a part hunt cross country, and find them. Theirs so many F150/250 trucks built each year, have a few wreckers put out on their locater for a set. I'd also comb the pick and pulls yourself. You can go on computer and it shows vehicles in inventory. Keep looking eBay and any trucking yards. If parts can be found for a 1914 Cadillac, yours is easy, just need to know where to go.

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[ExplorerTom]

The F250LD isn't super common actually. It was a short run before the F250 got its own 3/4 ton chassis.

Or you could try the non-air ride torsion bars. Way easier to find, and significantly cheaper.

Take some calipers to a junkyard and take some measurements. Getting them off at the yard will be the fun part.......

 

[1955moose]

What's weird is everytime I key in torsion bars even for our 2000 Eddie Bauer's, Tom all I see are the adjustment keys, not the 3 foot bars themselves. How come nobody seems to have them? They've been on the Expedition since 97-? You'd think they'd pop up on eBay, or somewhere. Apparently their scooped up quick, or they get bent or damaged somehow. They are exposed, and wouldn't take much to bend one. Does anyone here know who sells them for 1st edition Expedition?

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