shane_th_ee
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You'd better like the sound of that V8, because if that video's anything to go by, you won't be hearing anything but engine noise when under load...
Sure wish Ford would offer the 5.0 on the Expedition,Which F150 engine would a Ford Technician pick?
- Thread starter poppie
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poppie
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That's what I posted above, were on the same page, Quote, (Also Note the 5.0 had a 3.15 rear end and the 3.5 TT had a 3.55 rear end which is a distinct advantage for the 3.5 TT , Who knows what the 5.0 could have had for times with the same 3.55 rear end the 3.5 TT had), Me,I love V-8's and that is what I will buy when the time comes, I guess I'll buy an F-150 seeing as Ford will not give me a CHOICE spending that kind of money, THAT is IF they can keep the paint from falling off that Aluminum body better than they have done on the Expeditions back hatch's the last 13-14 year's .
I'll take $15k new trucks, a hundred grand pay, and two hundred grand housing... where do I sign up???
Hell, I'm even willing without the $15k new trucks part
I'll take $15k new trucks, a hundred grand pay, and two hundred grand housing... where do I sign up???
Hell, I'm even willing without the $15k new trucks part
You won't make many friends in the US truck world like that.
The statement is not accurate either.
Too many variables. A twin turbo...AND WHILE WE ARE AT IT!!!! Let's get ONE THING straight. Turbos: twin means nothing!! There are a lot of people that think ooooh twin turbos...TWO...that thing must be super fast or super powerful.
I want to make sure everyone knows for speed, or hp or torque....1 , 2, 3, it doesn't matter.
It is a turbocharged engine..THAT'S all that matters for these comparisons.
NOW, that I've calmed down and gotten that out....
Too many variables to say a turbo V6 gives more torque, hp and more mpg than a V8.
It's simply not true in many all cases.
It's like saying a V6 or V10 is inherently not balanced compared to a V8 or V12 so it shouldn't be made. I HAVE SAID this more than once. But the fact is that's an opinion.
There are V6 and V10s that are just as smooth as some V8s so it is relative.
I love turbo power....and I LOVE at lest one type of V6 turbo...BUT I would not want it in a truck or SUV.
In a full size truck of SUV I want 300 cubic inches minimum. I was never a fan of the 4.6 and its 281 cu in as far as displacement or power goes. The 302s were already faster in the mustangs and as soon as the 4.6 came out they had to scramble to make performance parts to get them back as fast as the engines they just replaced.
Luckily, now, the factory like to give us power- again-.
The 4.6 is a much better engine though as far as smoothness and longevity and handling abuse.
I want at lest 300 cubes and a V8.
We have only just touched on what would be the future of engines IF NOT for the electric cars which will probably take over and stop any real progress like I will mention here.
You can get more torque and hp (or at least as much) but smoother and longer lasting and no turbo(s) to replace (which you will) from a V8 and you can get mpg with cylinder deactivation (don't love it but it works) and the FUTURE.....????? valvetrain!!!
We got the V-tech that had two profiles. To basically you had a towing/low end cam at take off and midrange , then it kicked the foot out and you had a high rpm high end cam.
Then we got VVT or VCT..
These work more like degreeing in a a cam.
I did skip over simply in increasing base timing like turning a distributor that like every obdII car can do I think. Playing around with that timing gives more hp and low end but then you have a limit before pre-ignition.
But then with VVT and VCT we basically turn the cam like moving the cam srpocket one or two teeth. Like the timing sets with + an - marks.
I hope someone her is getting this and all are not just yuppies or whatevers that go pay 60k+ for a vehicle and only know specs and numbers they read and believe everything that the latest car and driver or motortrend says----They do that online now don't they? People don't buy magazines or stand there and read them all anymore. RIGHT?
SO VALVEtrain!
They have already invented and done this but it si not mainstream.
Infinitely variable self contained valvetrain...or valves or solenoids. WHatever they call them.
No camshaft needed. - good- No two camshafts needed. -even better- And Jesee Pete..NO 4 cams needed (as I sit here with a 32 valve Navi in the driveway--so overkill)-best.
Valve in the heads that independently open and close when told to by the ecm.
Sure...there will be all kinds of failures and bugs, and bent banged valves becaus eth dummies will make them interference engines.
That probably helps for mpg and stuff but can't they put them in different location ....Hemi style and compensate for whatever losses form making it IMPOSSIBLE for a valve to hit a piston...the way it should be.
But I know there are limits to what we can squeeze out of designs.
So the the valve give 2 benefits.
1: totally adjustable valve timing--DUDE- (hope you said that in surfer voice) a low power cam, a mid range, a high rpm... all in seconds.
2:Variable lift heights. This comes in later design as its more complicated but it working with the timing lets you squeeze more power and mpg out of engines.
For the astute reader who hasn't died or past out from my acute longwindedness....thise should probably be flipped as I think the towing/rv cam I referred to earlier is more about lift than timing up or down or duration of opening .
But lobe profile, ramp speed....etc etc etc....CAN ALL be done with each individual valve.
This is the evolution future of cutting edge gasoline engines but I fear it will be hampered (or should that be hindered) by the appearance or electric cars.
We'll see.
VROOOOOOM, VROOOOOOOOM!!!
shane_th_ee
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Let me put words in another poster's mouth and rephrase: [Compared to the 3.5L Ecoboost], Aside from its nostalgic value, [Ford's 5.0L Coyote] V-8s have no use anymore. Twin-turbo V-6 gives you much more torque, horsepower, and less fuel consumption.
I know everyone gets all worried about longevity of twin-turbos as the turbos of the late 70's to late 80's were not exactly legendary for their rock solid reliability. But we're not making generalizations based on the 1989 Saab Turbocharged gas engine vs a 2015 GM 6.2L LS V-8. We're comparing the 3.5L Ecoboost to the 5.0L Coyote. Go watch that TFL truck video: the Ecoboost is quietly purring along up the hill at 2500rpm while the V8 is screaming along at ~4500rpm. And it's not the rear end: ~4500 rpm is where the 5.0 makes peak power. With the 10 speed, a rear end swap is just going to change what gear the transmission is in...
JExpedition07
That One Member
Rear end ratio had LOTS to do with this. With 3.73s it would have been upshifting which results in quieter operation. Expeditions with 3.31s rev louder towing a trailer compared to 3.73 expys. I will add you can’t put a plow on anything equipped with the ecoboost. To get a plow package on an F-150 it must be equipped with the 5.0L V8. Use #1 right there. N/A bigger displacement engines are more efficient under load, that’s a fact. Same reason Ford uses the 6.2L V8 on the Super Duty. Life towing with a V8 is not represented in this video.....most get a properly equipped truck for the job and aren’t flooring it up the Ike gauntlet!!! I do agree the 5.0 isn’t exactly rich in mid range torque like the 5.4 Triton or 6.2L V8....even more why it needs 3.73s! It does great for being a relatively small V8 that’s a mixed platform engine with a pony car.
Just pointing out there are many case uses for a V8. Lower maintenance, engine braking, cooling, linear power and more top end power, sound, efficiency, etc. The EcoBoost is a good overall engine but it’s not the end all, just pointing it out. It’s got its uses, so does a V8.
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JExpedition07
That One Member
Just to rest my case I’ll add that Ford sees a use for the V8 because they are spending millions developing two new V8 engines as we speak....if there were no use they wouldn’t spend their precious development money!
How about a Twin Turbo V-8? The Dodge Hellcat is a v-8 with forced air induction.
1955moose
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Well Adieu, here's how you solve part of that equation. Move to Alabama, my friend just bought a 5 bedroom, 3 bath, with 5 acres for $240k. Buy a bottom of the heap F150 with a 2.7 liter, on last year closeout, about $25k, and make a butt load of money now, so your pensions, and 401k and other investments yield you $100k yearly income. When you sell your house in Southern California, your new one in Alabama will be paid for. Taxes, which are cheap, and water, and utilities, and fending off critters and rednecks will be your only problems. Hope you like heat, cause Bammy gets a wee bit warm in July!
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shane_th_ee
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You and I are in complete agreement here. But the OP was musing about the Gen IV Expedition as a possible application for the 5.0L Coyote. I am really struggling to think up a use case in which the 5.0L Coyote makes more sense than the 3.5L V8....
shane_th_ee
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Not for the Expedition* I'm not sure what use a V10 diesel would be in a vehicle with only a 1000-1200lb payload.
*Heck yes, for the Excursion.
Expedition EL/Max is the replacement.
RATED payload is higher. True payload FAR higher.
Also, diesel is cool for fuel economy... and fun. hell I got a diesel sport sedan and that's fun (when it actually runs)
aggiegrad05
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Old story but...in late 2017 the take rate on the 5.0 was 25%
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/08/v8-market-share-just-quarter-ford-f150-lineup/
JExpedition07
That One Member
This just came up last week on F-150 forum regarding the sales. Articles claim 25% are 5.0....the survey at F-150 forum found about 40% of 2018 buyers purchased the 5.0. It was the most purchased engine in the poll.
Obviously that can’t be taken as fact as it’s a survey. Most members of forums have the V8 apparently, is all that proves.
Obviously that can’t be taken as fact as it’s a survey. Most members of forums have the V8 apparently, is all that proves.
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JExpedition07
That One Member
Yes but six cylinders the size of your head!
1955moose
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It's strange, but all the smaller vehicles, whether it be pickups or cars or vans, never seem to make a splash with diesels. But on the bigger end, f250/350, or Dodge's big trucks, diesels do well in sales. It's a different kind of customer that buys say a F150vs a big 6 tire dually. The dually customer regularly hauls heavy trailers, or uses it for commercial applications. The F150 guy is more of a car guy that felt a pickup truck would be cool, or just uses it's truck features for light commercial use. That casual use guy/girl doesn't want a smelly, clattering diesel. No that guy wants a truck that rides, and runs like a car, with storage in back.
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