Towing and offroading impressions

[duneslider]

Made the first towing venture with the new Expedition (2019 XLT Max with Tow package). The trailer isn't really heavy and only tops out at 5k. This is mainly a comparison to the 2010 Jeep Commander 5.7L Hemi that was our tow vehicle.

This trip was from Salt Lake City to Moab. Elevation at home is about 4200', highest pass on trip was about 7500' and Moab is at about 4000'. Not a huge climb or anything but it is a trip I do several times a year with the trailer so I am very familiar with it. I typically tow at 65-70mph.

Not once did I ever feel like the expedition was even straining, not sure I ever saw the rpm's above 2500. Not sure if its the engine or the 10 speed transmission but it never even broke a sweat. The transmission was ALWAYS in the right gear and was amazing. Gas mileage was an average of 11-12 while towing, which was about where I expected it to be and better than the Hemi (it got 9-10 towing).

I do use a WDH and didn't notice any noticeable sag in the rear, I probably didn't get it setup quite right for the Expedition (hitch height is lower than the jeep and angles didn't seem the same) I need to make a minor tweak there to clean it up a bit.

The integrated brake controller was nice, seemed to work great. I didn't notice anything odd or really much of a different feel than the prodigy I used in the jeep. The prodigy does feel more progressive, not sure if the factory option is progressive or not.

I was absolutely blown away by how smooth the Expedition is offroad. It was hands down better than the jeep by a long shot. Washboard roads may as well have been smooth highway. I was seriously blown away. I did encounter some soft sand while turning around and parking in a wash and had a bit of worry set in as I felt the rear end sink. I switched the drive mode to the sand setting and hit the diff lock button and away it went like nothing happened. I was super impressed. This will never be a big offroader (have a big 4 door wrangler for that) but we do a lot of dirt roads to get to mountain bike locations, camping, and rock hounding. I wouldn't hesitate to take this everywhere I have taken my jeep commander and maybe even some places I didn't take it. I do want to look into the fx4 skid plates though.

Overall, I have zero regrets going with the expedition over the jeep commander.

 

[Deadman]

Great review~

The 3.5L makes so much torque down low it tows great!

 

[ExplorerTom]

EJS? What did you tow down?

 

[duneslider]

EJS? What did you tow down?

Just the camper and mountain bikes. The whole family doesn't fit in the JK anymore, so we do less "jeeping" than we used to but we still enjoy EJS weekend. Jeep trails are great in moab but mountain biking is super awesome too. We are down there around easter almost every year.

 

[Adieu]

Moab is fun

Mud, dirt, dunes, snow, all within spitting distance of each other

Which fuel do you use on the ecoboost? Seems like most of the regular in the area is labelled 85 octane... works fine with the V8's though

 

[ExplorerTom]

Which fuel do you use on the ecoboost? Seems like most of the regular in the area is labelled 85 octane... works fine with the V8's though

Regarding the 85 octane: octane requirements are supposed to decrease with increasing altitude. I live in Denver- every station around here is 85 octane for the cheap stuff. And I believe 91 is the highest you can go (maybe 92). Not sure where it transitions to 87 octane.

However, I’ve read conflicting data that doesn’t support the high altitude claim- especially with newer vehicles.

For grins last summer, I ran 3 tanks back-to-back with 87 octane. I ran each tank down pretty low to get as much of the old stuff out as possible. Mileage was largely unaffected. Power seemed to be slightly better- but not enough to fully convince me. Truck ran the same otherwise. And I spent several dollars more for each of those fillups.

I run 85 octane in all my vehicles here.

 

[duneslider]

From what I have read (not sure of the truth behind any of it) but the ecoboost likes higher octane. So, I have been running premium in it. I always ran premium in the Hemi when towing and around town I didn't care. I never got better than about 12-13mpg in the jeep commander. So, with the increase in gas mileage with the expedition and paying for premium I still am ahead when it comes to paying for fuel. I thought the manual also recommends premium. Its fairly common for vehicles to de-tune if fuel isn't up to *****. I'm not smart enough to know if it makes a big difference on this one or not.

 

[shane_th_ee]

I use premium when towing and the cheap stuff around town. When towing, the cost different between regular and premium is essentially offset by the increased fuel economy (the cost difference is about 10-15% around here).

 

[RhinoQuartz]

In the owners manual it should detail this, but when towing or in very hot conditions, premium fuel should be used to better performance, I believe its stated that 93 octane is ideal.

 

[aggiegrad05]

In the owners manual it should detail this, but when towing or in very hot conditions, premium fuel should be used to better performance, I believe its stated that 93 octane is ideal.

It does:

“For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer. See Towing a Trailer.”

 

[AviationLawyer]

So I haven't towed anything for a long time because I sold my last SUV years ago. I'm thinking about buying a used travel trailer. Anyone have experience towing something with a gross weight between 5k and 7k pounds with the Expedition? Also, I'm looking at some used Expeditions and Navigators, but I cannot tell from online advertisements which ones have the max towing package. It's frustrating. VIN numbers don't get me anywhere either. Any ideas how to check online?

 

[Edistobob]

I don't know about checking VIN's online; however, we do tow a trailer that weighs about 7000 lbs. Before the 2018, we towed it with a 2008 Expy EL. By far the new Plat Max outperforms it in every way that I know of. We do have the HD tow package. My main disappointment has been fuel mileage while towing; it is virtually the same as the 2008 was with the V8, usually averaging around 11 mpg. But as far as power, handling, capacity, etc. we are very happy with the new Plat Max.

 

[duneslider]

Aside from a diesel, you will not see any better towing mileage no matter what gas engine you have. I haven't talked to anyone who gets much better than the expedition gets. I have friends with toyota, chevy, dodge, etc and 10-12mpg towing is pretty much what everyone says they get in my area. Some of the guys with diesel get better.

I wouldn't hesitate to pull 5-7k with the expedition.

I looked for a long time to find a base model (or any model) 2018-2019 with the max tow. I saw very few. Usually, if you can get the interior pictures of the expeditions, you can see if it has the trailer brake control and backup deal on the dash.

 

[Fordalways]

Made the first towing venture with the new Expedition (2019 XLT Max with Tow package). The trailer isn't really heavy and only tops out at 5k. This is mainly a comparison to the 2010 Jeep Commander 5.7L Hemi that was our tow vehicle.
...
Not once did I ever feel like the expedition was even straining, not sure I ever saw the rpm's above 2500. Not sure if its the engine or the 10 speed transmission but it never even broke a sweat. The transmission was ALWAYS in the right gear and was amazing. Gas mileage was an average of 11-12 while towing, which was about where I expected it to be and better than the Hemi (it got 9-10 towing).
...
The integrated brake controller was nice, seemed to work great. I didn't notice anything odd or really much of a different feel than the prodigy I used in the jeep. The prodigy does feel more progressive, not sure if the factory option is progressive or not.
...

Duneslider, we share some similar results. I tow a 27' 9000#GVW travel trailer that weighs about 8200# on the scale including the tongue weight. My comparison was between an '02 Expy Eddy Bauer, 5.4l 2 valve Triton and 4spd in front of a 3.73ls and a '18 Expy Platinum Max, 3.6l EcoBoost and 10spd in front of a 3.37ls. Both have the HD Towing Package available at the time of manufacture. Neither has had any modifications other than a bug deflector on the front edge of the hood. I am retired and in no big hurry and while towing, I generally stay within 60-65mpg when traffic permits or I speed up if necessary while trying to maintain a safe stopping distance. Except for areas where the tranny would unnecessarily shift frequently, I generally use the cruise control for open highway.

For this apples to apples comparison, we towed this trailer from Texas to Alaska and back over the course of 4 months traveling north along the East Slope of the Rockies and back along the west coast and across Arizona and New Mexico. The distance was roughly 14,000 miles and about 10% of that was solo sightseeing adventures and 90% was towing on everything from flat and level interstates to day long stretches of barely 2-lane gravel with many grades mixed in on both types of roads. While the Platinum came with a slightly boosted version of the 3.6l that reportedly produces about 25 more hp on 91 octane vs 87, I stuck with 87 for these trips.

In 2014 we were obviously pulling with the '02 Expy. Overall fuel economy was 9.2mpg and necessary downshifts often bumped the tach to over 3500rpm. On extended grades like Raton Pass, I prefer to shift it to 2nd and drop in line behind the big trucks and climb at half throttle. Downhills on those type grades were also taken in 2nd with occasional light taps on the brakes to limit speed from the heavy trailer pushing us downhill. As be bought this Expy new in '01, none of this was new to us.

Last year we repeated this trip with the '18 Expy. Overall fuel economy was 11.9mpg, a bit over 20% improvement! As you noted, the tach rarely exceeded 2500rpm, but on a few 6% or greater pulls it did get up to about 2800rpm. This model also has Tow/Haul mode that I used. Also as you noted, it was always in the right gear, both up and down hill. What I was not anticipating was that if the cruise was set and going down hill, it not only downshifted to maintain the set speed, but activated the brakes if necessary. I first realized this by the reflection of the brake lights on the front of the trailer. There were times on rolling terrain that I would have preferred it to gather a bit of speed on the downhill and I'm sure those who were behind me wondered WTH I was doing. When I got into those situations, I switched off the cruise. Amazingly, the Expy sensed the downhill and did downshift, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't activating the brakes as it did with the cruise on.

In summary, the new Expy got exceptionally better overall MPG. It was much less tiring to drive. The interior ride was far smoother and quieter. The fake engine sound is pleasant to me, but seems corny, although it does sound like they tie the sound to the rpm and engine shifts and this sound seems slightly different depending on driving mode.

Wishes: Since Ford advertises this a great tow vehicle, they should offer extendable tow mirrors. I also wish the mode selector would remember the last used position.

 

[duneslider]

@Fordalways I agree with your sentiments on the wishes. I really wish they had towing mirrors. I used some strap on mirrors and they are fine but it would sure be nice to have a factory looking option for tow mirrors. The mode selector remembering where you set it would be nice too. Not just for towing. I find it odd that if you set it to ECO it wouldn't remember that, since that seems to be a such a hot topic lately. Almost surprised the eco mode isn't the default. (I haven't determined if the eco mode actually gets better mileage though, haven't done enough driving with it to notice)

I'm not even sure my XLT does the fake engine noise, if it does, I haven't noticed.

That is interesting about the brake application and cruise control. I did notice downshifting to maintain speed on downhills without any input from me. The expedition holds speed really well on long downhills, almost as good as driving manual back in the day. I was very impressed, first auto I have ever driven that felt that good on downhills. This was very nice offroad on steeper dirt roads, I didn't feel like I had to ride the brakes to maintain a preferred speed.

 

[rumline]

What I was not anticipating was that if the cruise was set and going down hill, it not only downshifted to maintain the set speed, but activated the brakes if necessary. I first realized this by the reflection of the brake lights on the front of the trailer. There were times on rolling terrain that I would have preferred it to gather a bit of speed on the downhill and I'm sure those who were behind me wondered WTH I was doing. When I got into those situations, I switched off the cruise. Amazingly, the Expy sensed the downhill and did downshift, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't activating the brakes as it did with the cruise on.

I noticed this too. I don't like that it applies the brakes, at least as much as it does. I can't tell if it also applies the trailer brakes as well but I assume it does. IMHO it stayed on the brakes far too long for my comfort. Trailer drum brakes just don't handle prolonged braking like that very well.

We did Raton Pass this year going to/from CA. Good times.

I took off cruise control but the default shifting while in tow-haul was not restrictive enough for me and I'd steadily gain speed, requiring frequent brake applications. I started manually downshifting using the + and - buttons and usually had to drop 1-2 gears beyond where the computer had it in order to hold downhill speed. I tried to keep it no more than 3300 rpm.

Overall I'm a little disappointed in the downhill experience. I like that if you tap the brake it'll often drop a gear, but it seems to not do it beyond 2500-2800 rpm, which on the steeper grades isn't enough. And yes I slow down before the descent.

Is it bad to let it rev at 3500 rpm for extended downgrades?

 

[Adieu]

Is it bad to let it rev at 3500 rpm for extended downgrades?

Isn't that just engine braking, and at fairly low RPMs?

 

[cmiles97]

For the towing gas mileage being similar to V-8s, it's not surprising. A turbo system pumps more air into the cylinder, more air means more fuel can be burned and higher energy explosions occur. Basically when fully utilizing the Boost, you are increasing the capacity of the motor. I saw somewhere but can't find it again that at high boost the system is doubling the volumetric capacity of the motor. In other words your 3.5L is operating like a 7.0L.

I've noticed in normal driving and when towing with the 6 speed, that it effortlessly stays in a high gear when my other vehicles would have downshifted under the same conditions. For example in normal flat driving My 17 expy is in 6th gear at 45mph running smoothly! How can this be? Well Ford says that the Ecoboost uses 90% of it's peak torque from 1,700 to 5,000 rpm. Other vehicles with V-8s don't get to peak torque until 4 to 5,000 rpm. That's a lot of grunt at low rpms. No wonder it doesn't have to downshift as much as others. Under low load while maintaining higher gears, that's where we get the greater gas mileage.


http://www.f150hub.com/specs/ecoboost.html

 

[Dr0idattack]

Duneslider, we share some similar results. I tow a 27' 9000#GVW travel trailer that weighs about 8200# on the scale including the tongue weight. My comparison was between an '02 Expy Eddy Bauer, 5.4l 2 valve Triton and 4spd in front of a 3.73ls and a '18 Expy Platinum Max, 3.6l EcoBoost and 10spd in front of a 3.37ls. Both have the HD Towing Package available at the time of manufacture. Neither has had any modifications other than a bug deflector on the front edge of the hood. I am retired and in no big hurry and while towing, I generally stay within 60-65mpg when traffic permits or I speed up if necessary while trying to maintain a safe stopping distance. Except for areas where the tranny would unnecessarily shift frequently, I generally use the cruise control for open highway.

For this apples to apples comparison, we towed this trailer from Texas to Alaska and back over the course of 4 months traveling north along the East Slope of the Rockies and back along the west coast and across Arizona and New Mexico. The distance was roughly 14,000 miles and about 10% of that was solo sightseeing adventures and 90% was towing on everything from flat and level interstates to day long stretches of barely 2-lane gravel with many grades mixed in on both types of roads. While the Platinum came with a slightly boosted version of the 3.6l that reportedly produces about 25 more hp on 91 octane vs 87, I stuck with 87 for these trips.

In 2014 we were obviously pulling with the '02 Expy. Overall fuel economy was 9.2mpg and necessary downshifts often bumped the tach to over 3500rpm. On extended grades like Raton Pass, I prefer to shift it to 2nd and drop in line behind the big trucks and climb at half throttle. Downhills on those type grades were also taken in 2nd with occasional light taps on the brakes to limit speed from the heavy trailer pushing us downhill. As be bought this Expy new in '01, none of this was new to us.

Last year we repeated this trip with the '18 Expy. Overall fuel economy was 11.9mpg, a bit over 20% improvement! As you noted, the tach rarely exceeded 2500rpm, but on a few 6% or greater pulls it did get up to about 2800rpm. This model also has Tow/Haul mode that I used. Also as you noted, it was always in the right gear, both up and down hill. What I was not anticipating was that if the cruise was set and going down hill, it not only downshifted to maintain the set speed, but activated the brakes if necessary. I first realized this by the reflection of the brake lights on the front of the trailer. There were times on rolling terrain that I would have preferred it to gather a bit of speed on the downhill and I'm sure those who were behind me wondered WTH I was doing. When I got into those situations, I switched off the cruise. Amazingly, the Expy sensed the downhill and did downshift, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't activating the brakes as it did with the cruise on.

In summary, the new Expy got exceptionally better overall MPG. It was much less tiring to drive. The interior ride was far smoother and quieter. The fake engine sound is pleasant to me, but seems corny, although it does sound like they tie the sound to the rpm and engine shifts and this sound seems slightly different depending on driving mode.

Wishes: Since Ford advertises this a great tow vehicle, they should offer extendable tow mirrors. I also wish the mode selector would remember the last used position.

What weight distribution hitch do you use?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[duneslider]

What weight distribution hitch do you use?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I use the Reese 66074 Weight distribution trunnion bar with Sway control. I like it a lot and it works very well in my opinion. However, there is not a single dealer in my area that stocks it or parts for it and that has been frustrating at times. Due to my area, if I was doing it again I would strongly consider the Equal-i-zer WDH and Sway control. They have a very strong presence in my area and EVERY dealer stocks them and parts. Everyone I know also uses them, setup seems a little easier with the Equal-i-zer too.

It took me a bit to get the Reese dialed in correctly on my first SUV and I am still working on it with the expedition to get it just right. I do feel it works really well and is a touch quieter than the Equal-i-zer.