Any HID Issues in Projectors?

[G213]

Hey All-

Currently running LEDs in both low and high beam on my 2016 w/ projectors. Fairly happy with the output, but I'm curious how much more output I could get from HIDs in the low beam. (LED light output patterns are a little funky) Anyone have experience with HID vs LED in the projectors?

I've heard about the diode dynamics...they look interesting but I'm guessing HID would push more light.

Curious to know if anyone has had issues with running HIDs, particularly any issues with burning/melting projectors or issues with using automatic lights. Also wondering if anyone has required can-bus resistors or wiring harnesses.

I've heard cases where some folks have accidentally burned their projector lenses; apparently some halogen projectors can't stand up to the UV put out by HIDs.

Also, I personally have had issues with auto lights and HIDs in the past...the ballasts wouldn't always fire properly when using the auto lights.

If anyone is interested in pics, I'd be happy to oblige in exchange for some advice

 

[TobyU]

I am way out of the loop on headlights. I just get mind boggled down by the terminology now.
How do you tell if projectors or reflectors.
Are all HIDs one style or the other?

I posted a couple of times in other threads but didn't really retain much of what was said.

I have an 03 navigator with HIDs and I couldn't ask for better headlights.
It kills me when people say their 2012 has abysmal lights!!!
Fords have had great lights since the first new F-150 in like 95.
Our 2000 Expedition had great lights but the Navigator....ohhh, the Navigator....the beautiful so white with blue tint and not a trace of yellow.....reminds me of the first NSX I ever saw on the street circa 1987 or 88.
The crispness, the sharp cutoff line....the brightness.
I'm going to go out and sit in there ant turn them on just after seeing this.

I just know that HIDs are at least (and factory parts still are) expensive.

I have a friend that has had over 400 Town Cars and the newer ones have HID's. He said he has only ever had 1 go out.

I was wanting to know what options I had if I ever have one not work.
I know I would have to determine if the bulb or the other stuff is bad..ballast I think.
I can get complete lens assemblies on ebay fairly cheap and I assume they are just halogen bulbs.
It would pain me to turn the key and not see the beautiful white light.
I think there are led replacement bulbs that pop right into the factory housing and maybe ebay bulbs thtat are the correct HID type.

I have seen some pics on here with LED bulbs and they looked much better than halogens..maybe same as or at least close to HIDs.

It gets confusing to me.

 

[Adieu]

Projector looks like a crystal ball, produces a crisp cutoff lines, and is correct for HIDs

Reflector looks like mirror polygons, no real cutoffs, not right for HIDs and may be illegal/ticketable or outright hazardous to oncoming traffic

Cheap aftermarket projector assemblies + cheap nobrand HIDs = will eventually haze over in a major way

Expensive projector lenses + cheap nobrand HIDs = hazes over a bit

Stock-grade projector lenses + brand name HIDs (think Osram) = no haze

 

[TobyU]

Projector looks like a crystal ball, produces a crisp cutoff lines, and is correct for HIDs

Reflector looks like mirror polygons, no real cutoffs, not right for HIDs and may be illegal/ticketable or outright hazardous to oncoming traffic

Cheap aftermarket projector assemblies + cheap nobrand HIDs = will eventually haze over in a major way

Expensive projector lenses + cheap nobrand HIDs = hazes over a bit

Stock-grade projector lenses + brand name HIDs (think Osram) = no haze

You mean the headlamp plastic assembly?

What do you mean by haze? The oxidation that gets on plastic headlights?

 

[G213]

This thread does an amazing job at explaining and comparing the differences of headlight styles and bulbs. (Long read, but worth it. Ignore the fact that it's on a Tacoma forum, the information on bulbs and light types is universal)

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/3rd-gen-hid-vs-led-vs-halogen-h11-projector-headlights.589465/

This thread shows a great picture of the differences between halogen projectors and HID projectors. While they are mostly similar, the HID projectors sometimes have larger reflector bowls to help with proper aiming of the light. Some halogen projectors handle HIDs better than others.

https://www.mazdas247.com/forum/sho...etting-brighted-with-HID-conversion-kit/page2

 

[Adieu]

You mean the headlamp plastic assembly?

What do you mean by haze? The oxidation that gets on plastic headlights?

Bad HIDs literally "haze" the inner projector lens (the "crystal ball"), especially if it's a cheapie itself... but stock-grade too.

It starts looking milky and unfocused and loses its lustre

For example, someone ran a noname replacement bulb in the left assembly on my Navigator... as soon as I noticed that it fired slower, started purplish, and took a while to get to normal color temperature, I ordered new Osrams for both sides

The other side turned out to be an older but working Osram, swapped em both nonetheless... anyway, the side that had the sh!tty penny bulb is a bit less crisp and pretty even with expensive top of the line bulbs ($90ish for the pair mailorder, same make and model Lincoln/Caddy/Merc/BMW etc sell for $400/side at the stealership)...

Not full-on milky pearls like crappy old ricer Hondas with bowlegged stanced wheels and Mugen stickers, mind you, but still....

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

I have an 03 navigator with HIDs and I couldn't ask for better headlights.
It kills me when people say their 2012 has abysmal lights!!!
Fords have had great lights since the first new F-150 in like 95.
Our 2000 Expedition had great lights but the Navigator....ohhh, the Navigator....the beautiful so white with blue tint and not a trace of yellow.....reminds me of the first NSX I ever saw on the street circa 1987 or 88.
The crispness, the sharp cutoff line....the brightness.
I'm going to go out and sit in there ant turn them on just after seeing this.

The low beams on my '11 Expedition are abysmal. They may actually be the worst low beams I have ever had on any vehicle. I am baffled as to why Ford didn't offer HIDs on any trim level back then or for many years to come. (Do they even offer them now?)

 

[G213]

The low beams on my '11 Expedition are abysmal. They may actually be the worst low beams I have ever had on any vehicle. I am baffled as to why Ford didn't offer HIDs on any trim level back then or for many years to come. (Do they even offer them now?)

I don't believe they ever offered HIDs on Expeditions. The 18's and up now have a LED low beam option for the upper trims.

 

[G213]

As promised, here's a quick peek at the output of LEDs in my '16 w/ projectors. Low beams and the bottom line is the factory LED fogs. (Looks like I need to realign the fogs)

Honestly, the hot spot on these is better than I remember, but you can see how it's a little off compared to an omni-directional halogen.

Full disclosure, this was in my parking garage and no more than....12 feet from the wall.

 

[Adieu]

Those LEDs definitely sit in the wrong spot

 

[mossback]

Installing HIDs is the second favorite thing I've done to the truck only behind disabling the double horn honk. The difference in light output is significant.

 

[G213]

Installing HIDs is the second favorite thing I've done to the truck only behind disabling the double horn honk. The difference in light output is significant.

And no issues so far? Auto lights working ok?

Did you use a harness or just direct wire?

 

[mossback]

There are quite a few threads on all this here in the archives. Some more info here:

http://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/2017-hid-headlamp-update.32801/page-4#post-285009

And no issues thus far.

 

[G213]

There are quite a few threads on all this here in the archives. Some more info here:

http://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/2017-hid-headlamp-update.32801/page-4#post-285009

And no issues thus far.

Thanks! I ordered my kit; plan to do the install this weekend. I'll throw up some pics after.

 

[G213]

For reference, here's a pic of the current LEDs further back from the wall. Decent hotspot, but it's a little off and the light isn't dispersed too well around it. They do the job but it will be interesting the see the HIDs in comparison.

 

[Maximus]

In terms of aftermarket technology with regards to lighting, LED headlight bulbs are still in their 'infancy', they're getting better with each generation but until they can get sharp and even light patterns from the LEDs like how a Halogen/HID filament does in a projector, LED bulbs still have a ways to go. Granted a lot of projectors in aftermarket headlights are absolute crap and it won't really help changing just the bulb, but I digress. I helped swap my friend's 15 Expy Headlights with the Morimoto HID kits Highs and Lows, they've been running great with no issues for some 11 months now.

 

[G213]

Install went very smoothly; in fact, this might be the easiest install I've ever done. This is a Morimoto XB kit from the The Retrofit Source. A quick google search will show that these are very highly rated kits enjoyed by many folks.

Here's a quick look again at the LEDs.....


And here are the HIDs.......



These pictures were taken against the same wall at approximately the same distance. None of this is scientific, just observational. Immediately you'll notice the hotspot has brightened significantly and the beam pattern has drastically widened....there's no gap between the two lights anymore and the pattern reaches almost down to the floor. I'm also seeing more consistent color throughout the light.

I haven't had a chance yet to try them in any "real" darkness (living in the city, you forget how dark the night actually is) but I'll post a few more shots when I do.

For those curious, I'm using the auto-lights without any issues. Now I do park in a garage both at home and at work...but so far no problems.

In terms of aftermarket technology with regards to lighting, LED headlight bulbs are still in their 'infancy', they're getting better with each generation but until they can get sharp and even light patterns from the LEDs like how a Halogen/HID filament does in a projector, LED bulbs still have a ways to go.

I agree. I think the pictures show the limitations of LEDs, even in a projector lens. Until they create an omni-directional LED (which I don't think is possible) HIDs will have a clear and significant advantage over LED when retrofitting into a halogen housing.

 

[G213]

And so continues the battle between a man and his mods. HIDs and I have the quintessential love/hate relationship. Lights have always been my go-to mod (after tint) and they've always had quirks. (At least the "digital" ones...more on that below**)

Pulled into the garage this evening and found my passenger low beam didn't fire with the auto-lights, while the driver side worked fine. It took about 5 power cycles before it finally fired. (I left at least 30 seconds between on/offs....not trying to blow a bulb)

Now my initial install didn't include a relay harness, as the stock wiring should be sufficient. So I went ahead this evening and installed the relay harness, using a factory ground point. So far, everything works well. I'll provide an update after a few days.

**I've used HIDs for over a decade now. My very first install used the old style "analog, magnetic, full size" ballasts. (I've heard them referred to as all three). Now maybe it was just a product of cars with old school electrical, but those ballasts NEVER gave me trouble and worked for years (including in the harsh northeast winters). As soon as they started rolling out the "slim, digital" ballasts, is when I started seeing oddities. Anyone else experience the same?