2003 Cranks but will not fire

[Transporter]

2003 Ford EB 4x4 parked at Home Depot, the truck was running fine. Came back out with my digital T-bevel and the truck would not fire, just crank and crank and crank.

So far I have checked all the fuses, replaced R203, I don't know if I have fuel rail pressure or not (borrowing a fuel pressure gauge tonight). I do not hear anything when I take the fuel cap off and turn the key to On right before turning it any farther would engage the starter. This makes me believe I have either a bad fuel pump of no power to the fuel pump. Which makes me think Bad R303 which is soldered in on the back of the fuse block or a dead fuel pump.

When I borrow the fuel pressure gauge I am also buying a can of starter fluid to see if it fire that way to eliminate all timing and engine run electronics.

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

.

 

[Plati]

Probably not this ... but could be
fuel cutoff switch
page 247 in owners manual


in the old days, i would have checked a spark plug to see if it sparked
dunno if people do that on cars nowdays

also, be careful with what you do
i have created NEW problems trying to find the original one

 

[riphip]

Sounds like it may be fuel pump relay problem.
https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/power-distribution-relay-issue.26809/page-3#post-323448
Also this: Didn't state your mileage but my 2004 had this problem at 100427 miles.

 

[Transporter]

Thanks, actually currently looking at that or a dead fuel pump. Trying to find a way to confirm it without actually replacing both. Anybody know a place I can bypass the Fuse Panel and get 12 volts to the fuel pump to power it manually? I bought a fuel pressure gauge so I can now check pressure if I can get power to the fuel pump to prove it good or bad.

As for Mileage, I have over 395,000 miles on the 2003 Expy.

How do you like the PowerStop brakes? I went whole hug with their performance package so I could haul the Expy down from speed as quick as possible even with its size. The vented slotted drilled rotors with the carbon fiber ceramic pads provide the best braking performance yet for the price on the Expy.

.

 

[GAINMOB]

couple of questions cuz i had this happen twice and it was both the fuel pump the 1st time then the rear fuel shutoff switch...it kept tripping due to a bad fuel relay...the troubleshooting took 2 days to find it as they went through everything THOROUGHLY...1st day was finding it was a fuel prob...2nd day was shooting wires...switches...relays...everything...i was out of town and was supposed to get back on the road 2 days before it happened...so glad i was back home where i grew up and not driving back to VA

 

[Quadmaniac]

couple of questions

Your questions?

 

[riphip]

Thanks, actually currently looking at that or a dead fuel pump. Trying to find a way to confirm it without actually replacing both. Anybody know a place I can bypass the Fuse Panel and get 12 volts to the fuel pump to power it manually? I bought a fuel pressure gauge so I can now check pressure if I can get power to the fuel pump to prove it good or bad.

As for Mileage, I have over 395,000 miles on the 2003 Expy.

How do you like the PowerStop brakes? I went whole hug with their performance package so I could haul the Expy down from speed as quick as possible even with its size. The vented slotted drilled rotors with the carbon fiber ceramic pads provide the best braking performance yet for the price on the Expy.

.

With 395K on the clock, I would expect the fuel pump gave up the ghost also if it has not already been replaced earlier in life. I had to replace the soldered fuel pump relay on my GEM board but mine has low miles compared to yours. Check that switch in the rear cover as the fuel pump may have over-amped enough to kick it. I have not had this happen (yet). Hope you find it soon.
That YouTube vid shows the wire to look for to put 12v on to bypass fuse/relay I think.
Good Luck

 

[Transporter]

With 395K on the clock, I would expect the fuel pump gave up the ghost also if it has not already been replaced earlier in life. I had to replace the soldered fuel pump relay on my GEM board but mine has low miles compared to yours. Check that switch in the rear cover as the fuel pump may have over-amped enough to kick it. I have not had this happen (yet). Hope you find it soon.
That YouTube vid shows the wire to look for to put 12v on to bypass fuse/relay I think.
Good Luck

Thanks, I'll rewatch the video.

UPDATE: I have put a fuel pressure gauge on the main rail. Zero pressure under all key positions and starting modes. Rear emergency switch not tripped. Sprayed 5 seconds of Valvoline Starter Fluid into the intake, the Expy started right up and ran for several seconds so it is not timing, engine electronics, or one of the 8 lockouts that prevent an engine from starting if their box isn't checked.

It has to be the Fuel Pump or power being cut off to the Fuel Pump somewhere along the path to the pump.

.

 

[Transporter]

Well that video just shows the bad relay that can go bad behind the Fuse Box, but not how to jumper around that to prove that is it or to power Fuel Pump to prove the fuel pump is still good.

So anybody know how to bypass the fuse block to power the Fuel Pump? Does anybody know how to jumper the Fuse Box is R303 is bad?

Suggestion?

.

 

[Plati]

have you tried searching this Forum?
I believe there has been a LOT of posts / discussion on this

 

[Transporter]

have you tried searching this Forum?
I believe there has been a LOT of posts / discussion on this

No, why would I do that as a Newbie that has only been on the Forum for 7 years. I searched for 2 hours before I made my post. That is how I found out about R303. The problem is "knowing" exactly what terms or words to search ON. I just searched for another hour turning up nothing, than I searched on different terms and forums this:

https://www.expeditionforum.com/posts/284605/

These pics look like they are from a YouTube Video. And it looks like my YouTube Foo is as bad as my Forum and Google Foo because I can't find the Video these stills came from. Anybody better at searching YouTube than I am?

Reason for my asking is where are the harnesses? Backside of fuse box or the connectors around the perimeter or someplace else. It would be good to know before shorting something out with a paperclip. Thanks in advance.

I feel I ma down to the point where it is the relays or the pump and want to know which. Fuel Pump change than off to the dealer, remove and solder in a new relay, that I can do on my RF Bench.

.

 

[Plati]

No, why would I do that as a Newbie that has only been on the Forum for 7 years. I searched for 2 hours before I made my post. That is how I found out about R303. The problem is "knowing" exactly what terms or words to search ON. I just searched for another hour turning up nothing, than I searched on different terms and forums this:

https://www.expeditionforum.com/posts/284605/

These pics look like they are from a YouTube Video. And it looks like my YouTube Foo is as bad as my Forum and Google Foo because I can't find the Video these stills came from. Anybody better at searching YouTube than I am?

Reason for my asking is where are the harnesses? Backside of fuse box or the connectors around the perimeter or someplace else. It would be good to know before shorting something out with a paperclip. Thanks in advance.

I feel I ma down to the point where it is the relays or the pump and want to know which. Fuel Pump change than off to the dealer, remove and solder in a new relay, that I can do on my RF Bench.

.

Sorry Sir, I am a big stupido and my parents apologize for my bad mistake not knowing everything about you. I should just give up and quit trying to help.

At the risk of making another huge mistake ... did you see this?
Of course you did! I am such a big stupido, my (and my parents) apologies.
https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/2004-navigator-fuel-delivery-issues.34790/

I know of a LOT of other posts but (being the big stupido that I am) I'm afraid you might have already seen them so I just cannot risk posting them. That would be almost as bad as my post about the fuel cutoff switch. You (and everyone else in the world) knew that too so I never should have posted that. I know nobody except you ever reads these posts.

did you see this?

OH NO I DID IT AGAIN !!!!!

 

[riphip]

That one and this one:

 

[Plati]

Is the Fuse Box the part that "there were two different part numbers used on 2003 model year Expy's"? So, if you do get a replacement ... you have to get the right one that works with your 2003? If you get the wrong one ... not good? I seem to recall a lot of posts on that subject but can't recall if this was that situato. I think Bob aka Bdrk47 covered that one as well. RIP Bob! His posts live on!!!

https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/suddently-dont-start-hellpppp.35412/#post-299117

it's funny ... Bobs name doesn't come up in the search box as a selectable user if you are specifically looking for a post from him ... but search still delivers his posts. I searched on fuse box from Bedrck47 and got a few hits from him

 

[Don Hall]

deleted-wrong section

 

[Transporter]

Sorry Sir, I am a big stupido and my parents apologize for my bad mistake not knowing everything about you. I should just give up and quit trying to help.

At the risk of making another huge mistake ... did you see this?
Of course you did! I am such a big stupido, my (and my parents) apologies.
https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/2004-navigator-fuel-delivery-issues.34790/

I know of a LOT of other posts but (being the big stupido that I am) I'm afraid you might have already seen them so I just cannot risk posting them. That would be almost as bad as my post about the fuel cutoff switch. You (and everyone else in the world) knew that too so I never should have posted that. I know nobody except you ever reads these posts.

did you see this?

OH NO I DID IT AGAIN !!!!!

Sorry, does purple text not mean sarcasm on this Forum? I was trying to add some levity to my personal frustration once I got it down to having to be either the R303 relay or the fuel pump and needing a means to absolutely prove that before heading to Ford or ordering the $20 relay to remove and solder in (Ford wants $863 to fix the relay because their fix is a brand new fuse box and not unsoldering and replacing the relay, $281 in labor and $582 for the new fuse box).

Plus losing Bob and not being able to ask him directly about the pics and videos. The Forum has lost several great resources over the years. And it is a very good thing we have members like you to help bridge that missing talent. The only area I am really versed in are the rear AC, audio electronics, and COPs (both coil on plugs and LEOs as I run full counter measures).

So thanks to everybody that replied to this post as I believe I have now proved it is the Fuel Pump, it will not start with the jumper in place (I even checked the jumper and it has 13.6 VDC) and with the jumper I also don't have any fuel pressure on the fuel rail.

.

 

[Plati]

Yes ... MrBedrock was a big big positive contributor to this Forum.
He had a lot of files he had saved over the years that he would share when applicable.

I'm cool. Yes ,,,, life is too short and to be enjoyed and sometimes that means going with the flow which I did a bit overboard but I enjoyed it and contributed (I think anyway).

My 2003 never had that problem but I assume now that I've opened my mouth .. it will.
I kind of hoped to get into the 2XX,*** miles range but with my corrosion ... unlikely.

 

[Transporter]

UPDATE:

So after my troubleshooting to help prove what it was (thanks for the help of the Forum), it is what I diagnosed it as, bad fuel pump. There was gasoline on the Flat Bed Tow Truck when he got to the Ford dealer. Upon inspection, I also have a hole in my gas tank caused by a very small piece of rebar that is impeded into the tank. It is a fairly good seal, but when the Expy gets put at the incline on the flat bed and brought back down to level with my full tank of fuel, the fuel sloshes forward causing fuel to come out around the not so perfectly plugged hole. Dealer said I would never have noticed any missing fuel even after weeks because the rebar plugged hole would probably leak less vapor than the gas tank vent. Now the bad news, they can't find a new fuel tank anywhere and they claim they are not allowed to installed a used one. Supposedly they have a non-flame/spark-less means to patch the dime size hole after removing the rebar.

This will be my third rebar incident: first was a piece that fell off a work truck on I-85 South bounced on the road twice then speared my passenger side front tire at 70 MPH. Glad I was alone because the boom was really unbelievable, second was a piece on the highway that a semi ran over and kicked it up into my windshield making a bad large chip and long crack so I had to replace the WS, and now a hole in the fuel tank. Once Rebar is unbundled, it should be required by law that it can only be transported in fully enclosed spaces (not stake beds or pickup truck beds).

 

[riphip]

Glad you found the problem
That is a hell of a magnet you driving

 

[Plati]

Thanks for update. I'm sure they can repair that gas tank, I'll bet there are several ways to do it. This isn't the first part I've heard of that you can't buy new anymore for the 2003 Expy.
Some parts you can't realistically even get used ... it seems.

3 rebar incidents - thats crazy stuff