Safety Recall 22S36 - Certain 2021 Model Year Expedition and Lincoln Navigator Vehicles - Underhood Fire

[ManUpOrShutUp]

Yup, but there shouldn't be failures of any kind in a perfect world.

That's a very black and white view you have. On one side it's a perfect world and on the other it's fine that $80k+ trucks spontaneously combust even after being parked for a day.

 

[Fastcar]

That's a very black and white view you have. On one side it's a perfect world and on the other it's fine that $80k+ trucks spontaneously combust even after being parked for a day.

No, more of a realistic view. Stuff happens whether it's a 80K or a 30K item, in this case it is reportedly less than 50 that have had an issue. We are not talking about a large number, of course to the individual that owns the truck it is huge.

 

[Rob6805]

No, more of a realistic view. Stuff happens whether it's a 80K or a 30K item, in this case it is reportedly less than 50 that have had an issue. We are not talking about a large number, of course to the individual that owns the truck it is huge.

Ford says that there have been 16 fires so far. Yes, that is a very small percentage of the total built. And also why it's difficult to determine the root cause.

 

[mrmustang]

Pretty lame that Ford can't figure out what is causing the fires. And I wonder why it doesn't impact the F150's with the same powertrain too? Something unique to the Expedition/Navigator.

While you consider it lame, you have to figure it could be any number of issues, from a part coming from a 3rd party supplier failing after "X" amount of time or hours used. It could have been a faulty sub assembly from that suppliers, supplier, or further down that food chain. A simple .0003 of a gram of solder on a microchip, which is now failing because of vibration or heat degradation. Perhaps all of the parts and assemblies are correct, but a person on the line was mis-trained, or his/her installation equipment was out of spec. Perhaps a forklift driver let his/her pallet down too fast, thus jarring the parts in such a way as to cause issues days, weeks, months down the road. Perhaps a tractor trailer driver hit a large pothole while taking a batch of parts from another manufacturer, or perhaps this is just something that was never considered when the truck was being designed (not likely, but still possible). There are 100's, if not 1,000's of other things that can be at fault. Finding them is not the trick, and Ford, I am certain, is throwing a millions in liquid funds to try and find and fix the issue so that it does not occur down the road ever again.

Just my two cents worth on the subject.

Bill

 

[Fastcar]

While you consider it lame, you have to figure it could be any number of issues, from a part coming from a 3rd party supplier failing after "X" amount of time or hours used. It could have been a faulty sub assembly from that suppliers, supplier, or further down that food chain. A simple .0003 of a gram of solder on a microchip, which is now failing because of vibration or heat degradation. Perhaps all of the parts and assemblies are correct, but a person on the line was mis-trained, or his/her installation equipment was out of spec. Perhaps a forklift driver let his/her pallet down too fast, thus jarring the parts in such a way as to cause issues days, weeks, months down the road. Perhaps a tractor trailer driver hit a large pothole while taking a batch of parts from another manufacturer, or perhaps this is just something that was never considered when the truck was being designed (not likely, but still possible). There are 100's, if not 1,000's of other things that can be at fault. Finding them is not the trick, and Ford, I am certain, is throwing a millions in liquid funds to try and find and fix the issue so that it does not occur down the road ever again.

Just my two cents worth on the subject.

Bill

Agreed with all of the above. But, Ford has managed to determine what trucks in the Q could be affected. That would lead me to believe that since they have managed to determine the hard start finish production dates they are aware of what is causing the problem.

 

[dnprall]

We found out about this on 5/19/22 and parked the truck outside. 30 minutes later a hail storm with ping pong ball size hail came through! FML.

 

[Rob6805]

While you consider it lame, you have to figure it could be any number of issues, from a part coming from a 3rd party supplier failing after "X" amount of time or hours used. It could have been a faulty sub assembly from that suppliers, supplier, or further down that food chain. A simple .0003 of a gram of solder on a microchip, which is now failing because of vibration or heat degradation. Perhaps all of the parts and assemblies are correct, but a person on the line was mis-trained, or his/her installation equipment was out of spec. Perhaps a forklift driver let his/her pallet down too fast, thus jarring the parts in such a way as to cause issues days, weeks, months down the road. Perhaps a tractor trailer driver hit a large pothole while taking a batch of parts from another manufacturer, or perhaps this is just something that was never considered when the truck was being designed (not likely, but still possible). There are 100's, if not 1,000's of other things that can be at fault. Finding them is not the trick, and Ford, I am certain, is throwing a millions in liquid funds to try and find and fix the issue so that it does not occur down the road ever again.

Just my two cents worth on the subject.

Bill

Yes, all true. But somehow they know the production date range of vehicles affected. They have to have a clue as to what's causing this. My bet is that the fix is not easy. Maybe involves removing the engine to access. Or possibly the IP. Both of which are very time consuming and present a risk that things are not reassembles correctly. They are crunching the numbers to see what, if any, solution is financially viable.

 

[PHD20]

Not sure if it could be related to this, but has anyone else noticed their Expedition making random noises while not running? Even when it's been off for several hours, in the garage, no one is touching it and the key fob is no where near it, I will sometimes hear an electric motor sound for about 2 seconds. Any ideas?

 

[twinturbodude7]

Not sure if it could be related to this, but has anyone else noticed their Expedition making random noises while not running? Even when it's been off for several hours, in the garage, no one is touching it and the key fob is no where near it, I will sometimes hear an electric motor sound for about 2 seconds. Any ideas?

I have a 2007 4runner that does the same. I think it's related to the fuel evap system / leakage check.

 

[ROBERT BONNER]

While you consider it lame, you have to figure it could be any number of issues, from a part coming from a 3rd party supplier failing after "X" amount of time or hours used. It could have been a faulty sub assembly from that suppliers, supplier, or further down that food chain. A simple .0003 of a gram of solder on a microchip, which is now failing because of vibration or heat degradation. Perhaps all of the parts and assemblies are correct, but a person on the line was mis-trained, or his/her installation equipment was out of spec. Perhaps a forklift driver let his/her pallet down too fast, thus jarring the parts in such a way as to cause issues days, weeks, months down the road. Perhaps a tractor trailer driver hit a large pothole while taking a batch of parts from another manufacturer, or perhaps this is just something that was never considered when the truck was being designed (not likely, but still possible). There are 100's, if not 1,000's of other things that can be at fault. Finding them is not the trick, and Ford, I am certain, is throwing a millions in liquid funds to try and find and fix the issue so that it does not occur down the road ever again.

Just my two cents worth on the subject.

Bill

Bill:

All correct, then add to it that:

1) The subject vechicles have been completely destroyed. Consider the forensics of just electrical connections: House fires that are started at electrical connections or appliances will normally have several feet of separation between discrete suspect appliances and/or connections to be investigated. Under the hood of any modern vehicle, the separation is millimeters. There are thousands of suspect connections and devices, that are all scorched and melted together. This doesn't make the task impossible, just more challenging.

2) Ford's access to suspect vehicles is usually mired in legal turmoil while the burned remains are left to corrode in a salvage yard or impound lot. Frequently the NTSB and NHTSA have first access to the vehicles after the attorneys and local fire investigation authorities. The people assigned from those various organizations have neither the expertise, knowledge, common sense or basic intelligence to know where to start, not to mention the damage to the forensic process that they do either intentionally or unintentionally to the involved vehicles long before Ford is allowed to review the vehicles. Having a vehicle experience the thermal event while being operated by a Ford Employee, at a Ford facility, or at a Dealership constitute a lucky break for all involved because it normally speeds the process by months to years.

In fact, the time that it took for Ford to get custody of the first vehicle(s) probably explains the lag between these specific events and the official notice to customers of the suspected problem.

Just saying.

 

[mrmustang]

Bill:

All correct, then add to it that:

1) The subject vechicles have been completely destroyed. Consider the forensics of just electrical connections: House fires that are started at electrical connections or appliances will normally have several feet of separation between discrete suspect appliances and/or connections to be investigated. Under the hood of any modern vehicle, the separation is millimeters. There are thousands of suspect connections and devices, that are all scorched and melted together. This doesn't make the task impossible, just more challenging.

2) Ford's access to suspect vehicles is usually mired in legal turmoil while the burned remains are left to corrode in a salvage yard or impound lot. Frequently the NTSB and NHTSA have first access to the vehicles after the attorneys and local fire investigation authorities. The people assigned from those various organizations have neither the expertise, knowledge, common sense or basic intelligence to know where to start, not to mention the damage to the forensic process that they do either intentionally or unintentionally to the involved vehicles long before Ford is allowed to review the vehicles. Having a vehicle experience the thermal event while being operated by a Ford Employee, at a Ford facility, or at a Dealership constitute a lucky break for all involved because it normally speeds the process by months to years.

In fact, the time that it took for Ford to get custody of the first vehicle(s) probably explains the lag between these specific events and the official notice to customers of the suspected problem.

Just saying.

Robert,

Agree 100%, having once been a successful body shop owner, and having had vehicles awaiting "further investigation" stuck in the back corner of my high security holding lot (IE: tall fence, lots of barbed wire, cameras) for weeks or months at a time (Google "Chevy Impala + plastic intake fire" ), I have no doubt that the lag in time was not caused by Ford, but by the other parties involved, all looking to place liability on anyone but their own bottom line.

Bill

 

[mpc11]

Ford says that there have been 16 fires so far. Yes, that is a very small percentage of the total built. And also why it's difficult to determine the root cause.

And 14 of the 16 were rental company vehicles. Seems like that has to have some relevance..

 

[Rob6805]

And 14 of the 16 were rental company vehicles. Seems like that has to have some relevance..

Yes, that's really strange. Regardless, Ford needs to come up with a solution. I feel that they may have a clue but aren't putting it out there yet until they have a fix. My bet is that it's going to be costly. Something that involves quite a bit of labor to address.

 

[ColoradoJon]

We found out about this on 5/19/22 and parked the truck outside. 30 minutes later a hail storm with ping pong ball size hail came through! FML.

I had this same worry as we were about to have such a wet spring storm. Many trees were falling in our neighborhood. I had hope my car wouldn't be damaged by one and luckily it didn't. I suppose insurance would cover it either way but I wondered if there would be more liability assigned to Ford just for the notion of making the claim to park our vehicles outside. Mine isn't in the date range identified but until I know more I am going to act like it is. Sorry about your luck, hail is a PITA.

 

[Maxine the Max]

We found out about this on 5/19/22 and parked the truck outside. 30 minutes later a hail storm with ping pong ball size hail came through! FML.

Shooooot

 

[ROBERT BONNER]

And 14 of the 16 were rental company vehicles. Seems like that has to have some relevance..

14 of 16 as rental units tends to point to low content, think XL, XLT, 2WD, small dash screens, etc. being the common denominator. Could also point to unique behaviors such as frequent car washing, unit turned off with windshield wipers on, frequent E-brake usage, maximum oil change intervals...

 

[wakeboarder]

14 of 16 as rental units tends to point to low content, think XL, XLT, 2WD, small dash screens, etc. being the common denominator. Could also point to unique behaviors such as frequent car washing, unit turned off with windshield wipers on, frequent E-brake usage, maximum oil change intervals...

A lot of people drive rental cars like they stole them!

 

[ROBERT BONNER]

A lot of people drive rental cars like they stole them!

I drive everything that way....

 

[HazBeen]

**UPDATE** Revised Dealer Notice, new Mobile Vehicle Repair recommendation for accomplishing Recall Service Action at Customer's home or business, new special-circumstance Rental Vehicle / Lincoln Pickup and Delivery provisions, Reimbursement procedure for prior Owner-paid Recall-related repairs, and full Recall Service Action procedure...

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

**UPDATE** Revised Dealer Notice, new Mobile Vehicle Repair recommendation for accomplishing Recall Service Action at Customer's home or business, new special-circumstance Rental Vehicle / Lincoln Pickup and Delivery provisions, Reimbursement procedure for prior Owner-paid Recall-related repairs, and full Recall Service Action procedure...

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The 14-step service procedure seems to have an error or an unnecessary step.

Step 2 states to open the hood.

Steps 3 - 9 do not state to close the hood.

Step 10 states to open the hood.