I'm about to do something stupid

[bb37]

I've owned about 26 different cars in 47 years of car ownership. Eleven of them have been Fords. Two of them have been Expeditions: a 2002 XLT 4WD 5.4 that I bought used and drove about 90k miles and a 2015 XLT 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost that I bought new and drove 100k miles.

I traded the 2015 on a 2023 Dodge Durango R/T 5.7 HEMI. The Durango is a fun vehicle, but there are things that I'm beginning to dislike about it. This has lead me to start thinking about Expeditions again, specifically new 2024 models. Having seen the photos and video of the 2025 Expedition, I think the split tailgate is a good idea, but the dashboard looks hideous. There are several 2024 Expeditions on dealer lots in my area, so I just might take the plunge this fall. The "stupid" part of this is that I'm going to take a bath on the Durango as the resale value is not very good.

After reading "stuff" on social media, I have some questions about the 2024 models:

1. The 10-speed transmission. Has the CDF drum issue been resolved? I understand that there may still be some software issues affecting shift quality, but the CDF drum issue is very concerning.

2. Cam phasers. I've seen comments online that Ford has developed new cam phasers for the 3.5 Ecoboost. Approximately when did Ford switch over to the new phasers?

3. The 15.5 inch "tablet" display. I'm not a fan. But, I'm having a hard time finding an Expedition Limited non-Max that doesn't have it. The one negative that I keep hearing is that it takes multiple touches to adjust the HVAC temperature: one touch to activate the slider, then another touch to move the slider. Is that true? If it is true, I think I'd rather have discrete buttons.

4. 3.73 ELSD. Obviously, the ELSD would be an advantage in slippery conditions. My 2011 F-150 had it, but my 2015 Expedition didn't. Can't say I had a problem getting around in snow or mud with either one. My gut tells me that the 3.73 final drive would hurt fuel economy. How much?

Anything else I should worry about?

Some of the dealers I'm watching may be getting nervous about the 2024 Expeditions they have on the lot. I found one Limited with 304A that is being advertised at $8000 off sticker. Very tempting.

 

[NevadaGeo]

You are moving in the right direction! I can attest to the tablet screen HVAC controls are dangerous and foolishly thought out/designed. I hoped Ford would have fixed it by now. I read on these forums that there is a new Sync 4a update 5.1.1 that allows the volume wheel on the tablet to be used to adjust the temp settings etc, but I have not been able to download that update...another Ford issue that is poorly designed. Futile to bring to dealer since they will tell you to "just download it".

Good luck. I will be watching this thread.

 

[BigOleFordFan]

I found one Limited with 304A that is being advertised at $8000 off sticker. Very tempting.

wow, a WHOLE 8-10% off on a $65-80K vehicle that is gathering dust while the '25's are on their way to the dealers....If you're really interested in it, I would offer 15-20% off and see what happens..they may just jump on it.. it's not like they're selling 10 Expy's every day after all

 

[GixxerJasen]

1. The 10-speed transmission. Has the CDF drum issue been resolved? I understand that there may still be some software issues affecting shift quality, but the CDF drum issue is very concerning.

Jury is still out on this one. Many of us have the upgraded part, but it's too soon to tell. Some have the upgraded part and problems have returned.

2. Cam phasers. I've seen comments online that Ford has developed new cam phasers for the 3.5 Ecoboost. Approximately when did Ford switch over to the new phasers?

About two years ago. I just passed 2 years of ownership on my 2019 and it had the phaser rattle when I bought it. I took it from one dealership straight to my local dealership and dropped it off. It got the upgraded part at that time. I've now doubled the mileage it had and no issues. Seems not a lot complaining about the problem coming back with the newer part that I've seen.

3. The 15.5 inch "tablet" display. I'm not a fan. But, I'm having a hard time finding an Expedition Limited non-Max that doesn't have it. The one negative that I keep hearing is that it takes multiple touches to adjust the HVAC temperature: one touch to activate the slider, then another touch to move the slider. Is that true? If it is true, I think I'd rather have discrete buttons.

I thought this too, but then I realized, how often do you mess with the A/C? I set it and forget it, unless my wife messes with it, then I need to mess with it back when she gets out. If it's hard to find in the screens, perhaps she'll leave it alone? I mean, the only thing I'd mess with less is switching from mph to kph, and for some reason on mine Ford made that so easy to do it's possible to accidentally switch it. Dumb, should just bury that in a menu somewhere.

 

[bb37]

I thought this too, but then I realized, how often do you mess with the A/C?

I had a 2020 Edge that had automatic temperature control. I found that there was too much "dead band" between heating and cooling. IOW, if the system was in heating mode and the temperature in the cabin increased, it would have to get pretty warm (my perception) before it switched to cooling. And, vice versa. As a result, I felt like I was adjusting the setpoint up and down a few degrees fairly frequently on moderate days.

OTOH, the automatic temperature control in the Durango seems to work pretty well. I leave it at 72 pretty much all the time.

Your point is well taken. Are there advantages to the 15.5" display that I might miss if I didn't have it?

 

[RazrM5]

Be weary of vibration at highway speeds — 70 mph plus. Steering wheel, accelerator pedal, driver side as a whole.

 

[Mack444]

My transmission (~15k miles in a year owning a ‘22 Timberline) has been adequate, but like any auto has problems if you bury or float the pedal. Drive modes help with drive style, like sport mode really does get the shifting for a sport drive!

Big screen, big misses. It’s hard for me to reach the button I want to press on the screen without missing or sliding instead of tapping. I end up talking to it more than anything. Either Siri for CarPlay or ask sync to tune the radio, change the climate, and even adjust my seat heaters.

Good luck on pricing! I got lucky and found a Covid car without some chips that no one wanted to touch for over a year of sitting.

 

[Samantha1]

Hi,
I have a 2023 XLT that I special ordered and received in Jan., 2023, and currently have 35,400 miles on it. I have not had any transmission issues. I also have not had any other issues and am very happy with it! I've taken it on two long trips of approximately 7,000 - 8,000 mile each and it's wonderful on the road. It has the 3.73 non-limited slip (tow package) and I think the difference in gas mileage is negligible, of course driving habits play a big part in mpg's.
Samantha

 

[5280tunage]

Also be sure to do some "diligence" with respect to dealers and service stations around you. Here's my gripe on this point, Ford is selling vehicles that cost as much as BMW X5's and even lower model X7's. Granted, those don't have the same room and some of the features the higher priced expy's have, but the dealer and service experience for good friends of mine that own those get is night and day from what we get. I know, I just spent another 5.5 weeks without mine, it's going back tomorrow because the tech replaced the wrong front axle shaft, and I still have to take it back once the parts are available for the front seat belt recall. All that being said, I love driving this thing but when there are, and there will be issues, the service experience is terrible for cars that can be $80K+. I'm not claiming BMW's are any more reliable, or less, I'm just saying the impact on my life was painful and there's more to come. Funny part, they wanted my loaner to initially be an escape, then a ranger, but luckily I stood my ground and had an F150 and a 2024 expy. I will say, I found numerous issues in both of those vehicles while using them for loaners, so I'm not inclined to say the quality is any better.

i.e. look at this. I know, it's just trim, but for a vehicle to have just arrived at the dealer, had 4.2 Mi on it, and this is what you see when open the drivers door? There was black, greasy hand prints on the headliner in the back. The F150 blew a shock at less than 1k miles. WTAF?

I actually preferred the screen in the F150, it was far more functional but the expy was only an XLT so it had the more basic screen. The F150 was far more loaded, but again it was higher up, still had plenty of functional buttons, and was larger but not the giant TV sized screen.

I also know that folks on here with the Navi are getting better service, a little more akin to what I see on the nicer imports, but that insane. Additionally, I get that some folks have 3-20 cars and so being without one isn't a big deal, it is more a big deal for me.

 

[bb37]

Ford is not alone. The Durango I bought had sat on the lot for 3 months and nobody noticed a problem with the paint in the left rear door jamb area. Granted, not the first place someone looks when they approach a new vehicle, but I caught it right after the test drive.

The dealer promised to fix the paint, but then I played phone tag with them for three weeks trying to get the appointment set up. When it finally happened, they put me in a loaner that was under recall and couldn't be sold. Luckily, the loaner didn't burst into flames while I had it.

The problem with dealers is that they are starting to become a commodity...but they don't seem to realize it. The dealer where I bought the Durango _and_ my nearest Ford dealer are both part of a large conglomerate that have something like 200 dealers in 16 states. These dealerships use the same paperwork, have the same hiring practices, have the same access to financing, and their sales goals roll up to the Big Corporation. You may think you are visiting completely different dealerships, but they are all the same.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

Also be sure to do some "diligence" with respect to dealers and service stations around you. Here's my gripe on this point, Ford is selling vehicles that cost as much as BMW X5's and even lower model X7's. Granted, those don't have the same room and some of the features the higher priced expy's have, but the dealer and service experience for good friends of mine that own those get is night and day from what we get. I know, I just spent another 5.5 weeks without mine, it's going back tomorrow because the tech replaced the wrong front axle shaft, and I still have to take it back once the parts are available for the front seat belt recall. All that being said, I love driving this thing but when there are, and there will be issues, the service experience is terrible for cars that can be $80K+. I'm not claiming BMW's are any more reliable, or less, I'm just saying the impact on my life was painful and there's more to come. Funny part, they wanted my loaner to initially be an escape, then a ranger, but luckily I stood my ground and had an F150 and a 2024 expy. I will say, I found numerous issues in both of those vehicles while using them for loaners, so I'm not inclined to say the quality is any better.

i.e. look at this. I know, it's just trim, but for a vehicle to have just arrived at the dealer, had 4.2 Mi on it, and this is what you see when open the drivers door? There was black, greasy hand prints on the headliner in the back. The F150 blew a shock at less than 1k miles. WTAF?

I actually preferred the screen in the F150, it was far more functional but the expy was only an XLT so it had the more basic screen. The F150 was far more loaded, but again it was higher up, still had plenty of functional buttons, and was larger but not the giant TV sized screen.

I also know that folks on here with the Navi are getting better service, a little more akin to what I see on the nicer imports, but that insane. Additionally, I get that some folks have 3-20 cars and so being without one isn't a big deal, it is more a big deal for me.

You make some very valid points regarding service.

I’ve owned and driven vehicles for 50+ years. I began buying new vehicles only in 1975. I have purchased a lot of new vehicles over the years - mostly GM and Dodge, with my first Ford (Expedition) in 2015. I’ve had a lot of warranty, recall and customer-pay work done at various auto dealers.

Without a doubt - Ford dealers consistently provide the worst service (warranty and customer-pay).

I’ve twice had to wait while my Ford was parked at the dealer for 3-months, awaiting repair parts from Ford (not drivable). I had to wait one year and one day for a safety recall Ford part.

The past several years Ford has had the highest number of safety recalls issued - and the highest number of vehicles recalled for safety reasons. This is a good indicator of the poor quality of Ford products. Even their CEO admitted publicly the safety recalls was his number one concern.

I don’t have an answer, but Ford continues to have a variety of major quality issues (the 10-speed transmission and cam phasers issues are just two examples of widespread issues that require major repair work).

My wife and I are preparing to replace our vehicles with new ones and I won’t be looking at a new Ford. I’ve been burned too much with my last new (and only) Ford vehicle and would not take a chance with them again.

 

[GixxerJasen]

Your point is well taken. Are there advantages to the 15.5" display that I might miss if I didn't have it?

I can't really speak to specifics as I have the smaller screen in my 2019, however I did have a 2024 F150 while the Expy was getting the transmission rebuild, and I couldn't wait to get my Expedition back, except for the screen, I did miss the big F150 screen when we turned it in. I love running the split screen between navigation and Spotify, and the extra real estate is nice for that. Yes, I use navigation even in my home town because google will save me a lot of headaches when there's an accident by rerouting me.

 

[5280tunage]

Honestly it sucks, I love the way this thing drives, I did massive amounts of research ahead of time and it felt like Ford was turning a corner, then Covid hit and it was a cause and an excuse for things to get things much worse, quickly. When this thing is reliable, it's great! But I have a 2019, which I believe is about the perfect year, got the kinks out of a new generation after a year, and just before covid quality hit.

 

[Alwaysthinkin]

Also be sure to do some "diligence" with respect to dealers and service stations around you.

This is really the biggest concern I have with Ford. I feel like a second class citizen in any dealings I have had with Dealers in my neck of Georgia.

My wife and I are preparing to replace our vehicles with new ones and I won’t be looking at a new Ford.

Don't think I will ever buy another Ford either. I was too spoiled with the Infinity dealership in Highlands Ranch to appreciate a Ford dealer who acts like he's doing you a favor to take your vehicle and sit it in his lot for weeks before even working on it. Incredible they continue to stay in business. The Infinity dealership made appointments and did the work that day AND they provided a comfortable environment to wait with free drinks and snacks. I've said before, I'll be considering the dealership I buy from next time just as important (maybe more so!) as the vehicle I intend to purchase.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

This is really the biggest concern I have with Ford. I feel like a second class citizen in any dealings I have had with Dealers in my neck of Georgia.

Don't think I will ever buy another Ford either. I was too spoiled with the Infinity dealership in Highlands Ranch to appreciate a Ford dealer who acts like he's doing you a favor to take your vehicle and sit it in his lot for weeks before even working on it. Incredible they continue to stay in business. The Infinity dealership made appointments and did the work that day AND they provided a comfortable environment to wait with free drinks and snacks. I've said before, I'll be considering the dealership I buy from next time just as important (maybe more so!) as the vehicle I intend to purchase.

Excellent dealer service (warranty and customer-pay) drives repeat customers and new-vehicle purchases (even when the subject vehicle has a lot of issues).

Bad dealer service drives customers away, and causes them to tell others of the problems.

Any dealer can sell someone a new car for the first time - it is the repeat customers that are happy with the vehicle service that keeps them coming back to the business and brand (and telling others).

 

[Lumberjack]

I currently own about 15 vehicles and just as many pieces of equipment if not more. Find a dealership that cares about the customer and wants repeat business. We love our Timberline and will be ordering a 26 model as soon as possible. This said we also love our dealer. Even when we did have a problem they put us in another expedition (limited). I have had all the same problems with service at Ford Chevy Dodge Toyota Cat JCB Takeuchi John Deere Mack Volvo and Peterbilt. The only manufacturer I haven’t ever had problems with is Kenworth. I’m sure that’s just a luck. My Chevy 4500 I drive for work every day is getting a new motor at its second dealership after the first dealership had it for 5 months rebuilding the top end.
Buy the expedition because it’s comfortable it’s reasonably priced for what it is and you like it. Don’t put too much stock in the whining you her about all the time. No one ever tells you how good the steak was 98% of the time, they only complain when it’s wrong.

 

[Shakeandbake]

Also be sure to do some "diligence" with respect to dealers and service stations around you. Here's my gripe on this point, Ford is selling vehicles that cost as much as BMW X5's and even lower model X7's. Granted, those don't have the same room and some of the features the higher priced expy's have, but the dealer and service experience for good friends of mine that own those get is night and day from what we get. I know, I just spent another 5.5 weeks without mine, it's going back tomorrow because the tech replaced the wrong front axle shaft, and I still have to take it back once the parts are available for the front seat belt recall. All that being said, I love driving this thing but when there are, and there will be issues, the service experience is terrible for cars that can be $80K+. I'm not claiming BMW's are any more reliable, or less, I'm just saying the impact on my life was painful and there's more to come. Funny part, they wanted my loaner to initially be an escape, then a ranger, but luckily I stood my ground and had an F150 and a 2024 expy. I will say, I found numerous issues in both of those vehicles while using them for loaners, so I'm not inclined to say the quality is any better.

i.e. look at this. I know, it's just trim, but for a vehicle to have just arrived at the dealer, had 4.2 Mi on it, and this is what you see when open the drivers door? There was black, greasy hand prints on the headliner in the back. The F150 blew a shock at less than 1k miles. WTAF?

I actually preferred the screen in the F150, it was far more functional but the expy was only an XLT so it had the more basic screen. The F150 was far more loaded, but again it was higher up, still had plenty of functional buttons, and was larger but not the giant TV sized screen.

I also know that folks on here with the Navi are getting better service, a little more akin to what I see on the nicer imports, but that insane. Additionally, I get that some folks have 3-20 cars and so being without one isn't a big deal, it is more a big deal for me.

Some pretty solid advice. Some dealer networks are great, but not the Ford one I'm near. I'm in a large metro area and I had to book weeks in advance for an appointment, and spend another several days just to diagnose (without a loaner). This is the first car brand I've experienced this.

 

[zeecarr]

The latest software makes much better use of the knob that is built into the 15.6 inch screen. A quick touch can bump the settings up and down, it also now puts the knob in control of the temperature or fan or seat a/c etc to easily dial it in to the exact setting you want. This was a huge improvement that loaded a couple of months ago... I liked having the knob for volume control despite having volume as one of the MANY control buttons on the steering wheel, and now being able to use that knob for much more is way better.

 

[bb37]

The latest software makes much better use of the knob that is built into the 15.6 inch screen.

Thank you. I've been watching YouTube videos of the 15.5" display in action and I've noticed this in a few recent videos. Looks like a useful update to the software.

 

[5280tunage]

I currently own about 15 vehicles and just as many pieces of equipment if not more. Find a dealership that cares about the customer and wants repeat business. We love our Timberline and will be ordering a 26 model as soon as possible. This said we also love our dealer. Even when we did have a problem they put us in another expedition (limited). I have had all the same problems with service at Ford Chevy Dodge Toyota Cat JCB Takeuchi John Deere Mack Volvo and Peterbilt. The only manufacturer I haven’t ever had problems with is Kenworth. I’m sure that’s just a luck. My Chevy 4500 I drive for work every day is getting a new motor at its second dealership after the first dealership had it for 5 months rebuilding the top end.
Buy the expedition because it’s comfortable it’s reasonably priced for what it is and you like it. Don’t put too much stock in the whining you her about all the time. No one ever tells you how good the steak was 98% of the time, they only complain when it’s wrong.

while all that may be true, you just described why this impacts folks differently. you have 15 vehicles, I don't even have 15 hot wheels cars. so when mine is tied up like this, I can't get the kids to soccer games/tourney's, I can't go to home depot to get materials for my home, or groceries, etc. there are different situations for different folks. So poor reliability (at least my experience) and poor service is what's pushed my away for the foreseeable future.

now having said that, yesterday there was a decent touch. after having to return mine to the dealer yesterday after their tech replaced the wrong front half shaft last week (after having it for 5.5 weeks), they delivered it to me when it was done. definitely helped keep me from having to take my wife from work or order an uber