2010 - 2014 5.4 cam phaser parts et al end of life?

[Lynnii2]

I have a 2010 limited 2wd with 260,000 miles on it now and have owned it for 13 yrs. I also use 5w30 every 5,000 full synthetic oil. I said no to the current suv prices even with going to my credit union and told my wife I'm going to get everything fixed. I watched all the videos on the 5.4 that FordTechMakuloco did and went a head and called BSG Automotive (FordTechMakuloco) 181 Commercial Dr unit b, Yorkville, IL 60560 ph:630-687-1207 left a voice and sent an email about the issues i was having and what i needed fix and his recommendations.

It was the best $6,500 spent

Items replaced at 250,000 on original engine and transmission.

The following items are replaced during the service: chains, tensioners, guides, tensioner arms, VCT solenoids, phasers, Melling HV oil pump, gaskets and oil change after. two heater hoses, oil pan removal for clean out, all engine mounts, transmission mounts, coolant hoses, new water pump, new spark plugs, new rocker arm, valve lifter, follower lash adjusters.

All work was completed and done within 2 days.

Before I had all the work done I had all the u-joints replaced at local drive axel company. I did new rotors, pads and parking brake, replaced all suspension parts on the front end, inner and outer tie rods, lower and upper control arms, ball joints, sway bar links. I replaced all the rear trailing arms in the rear, lower control arms rear, rear diff drain and fill, replaced transmission pan (Dorman 265-854) with drain plug, gasket, drained and fill transmission all at home in the garage and made my oldest son help.


The truck drives like new, improved gas milage city and highway.

I did the drive from San Diego, CA to Yorkville, IL in 26 hours only took a 3 hour nap.

 

[inmanlanier]

It was the best $6,500 spent

Items replaced at 250,000 on original engine and transmission.

The following items are replaced during the service: chains, tensioners, guides, tensioner arms, VCT solenoids, phasers, Melling HV oil pump, gaskets and oil change after. two heater hoses, oil pan removal for clean out, all engine mounts, transmission mounts, coolant hoses, new water pump, new spark plugs, new rocker arm, valve lifter, follower lash adjusters.

Confirming your response - you did the replacement preventively with no active symptoms at the time, yes? In other words, you did it as I was thinking?

 

[S20Workstation4]

I have a 2010 EL w/ 240k
It developed a startup rattle and phaser tick at 215k, so I replaced all timing parts. Been running good ever since.
No transmission issues either.

 

[inmanlanier]

I have a 2010 EL w/ 240k
It developed a startup rattle and phaser tick at 215k, so I replaced all timing parts. Been running good ever since.
No transmission issues either.

Can you share the cost of repairs and which parts constitute 'all timing parts' please?

 

[inmanlanier]

Oh, well - hoping for the last poster to reply, however....

We don't put a lot of miles on this vehicle each year and I run synthetic oils and have since we bought the car with 23K miles on it. Right now at ~113K miles I have zero sound on start (and restart) and it runs great.

At this time, based on price and others' experience, I think I'll simply 'run to failure' or better stated run until symptoms. I don't think waiting will have a catastrophic result - this appears to be a wear related item. Even if I don't catch the symptoms soon enough, worst case scenario might be a worn follower or two or a cam - not an outrageous price adder to the bill.

Thanks, all for the input.

 

[abkirk]

 

[abkirk]

Does this look like a Cam Phaser issue? 2013 5.4. 100k on the engine.

 

[abkirk]

So update on cam Phaser issue: $150 for Ford to scan my expedition. They agreed it was the cam Phasers. They asked $4500 to fix it. The delete sounded like a better idea.
I have a Chevy friend I grew up with that is the LS-1 king in our part of the world. He tunes them. I asked him who he trusted to work on my Ford engine and he recommended a gentleman in Paintsville, KY. Carbon Automotive agreed to do the job turn key for $1450. There number is 6063721600. Mine is scheduled Monday, Feb 3. I will post results.

 

[S20Workstation4]

Can you share the cost of repairs and which parts constitute 'all timing parts' please?

I apologize, I must have missed the notification for this message...

The Timing Kit cost $600 from Amazon, it was sold by a Ford Dealer online and was all Ford OEM Parts.
This included: 2 Phasers, 2 New Phaser Bolts, 1 New Crank Sprocket, 2 Timing Chains, all the guides and tensioner arms, 2 tensioners, and all necessary seals (excluding valve cover gaskets)

24 New Ford OEM Rocker Arms - ~$400
24 New Ford OEM Lash Adjusters - ~$400

Buying some tools and other things, it ended up costing me roughly $1600 for parts. Not bad considering the dealer wanted $5,000......



Joe

 

[Lynnii2]

I have 2010 Limited 2wd and Items replaced at 250,000 on original engine and transmission had BSG Automotive (FordTechMakuloco).

The following items are replaced during the service: chains, tensioners, guides, tensioner arms, VCT solenoids, phasers, Melling HV oil pump, gaskets and oil change after. two heater hoses, oil pan removal for clean out, all engine mounts, transmission mounts, coolant hoses, new water pump, new spark plugs, new rocker arm, valve lifter, follower lash adjusters.

All work was completed and done within 2 days and $6,500

 

[Lynnii2]

Confirming your response - you did the replacement preventively with no active symptoms at the time, yes? In other words, you did it as I was thinking?

I had a rattle at startup only lasting 10 sec, so I decided it was a necessary to get fix before it became worst. This is going to be my son truck and wanted to make sure it runs fine

 

[sboychuck]

I have a 2014 EL KR 4WD that I bought at 115K miles with a minimal cold start rattle. I knew that would only get worse, over time. I contacted Brian at BSG Auto, https://youtube.com/@fordtechmakuloco?feature=shared and scheduled preventative maintenance. Went with a full timing job, including; Melling HV oil pump, roller followers, lash adjusters, water pump, thermostat, upper and lower radiator hoses and heater hoses. He said the engine looked very clean inside. I also had both exhaust manifolds replaced, before the exhaust leaks started. I live in SoCal, north of Los Angeles’s, so it was a nice 12-day road trip. He had the truck four days, and it was four days there, and four days back.

Before that, I had a trusted transmission shop do all the oil pressure lines, and Lead Frame, as well as front and rear differential fluids and transfer case fluid. Another shop handled the front and rear brakes, pads and rotors.

This SUV is now good to go for many years and miles, and I feel it is better than making car payments, as I bought it for cash. The interior and exterior is a 9 out of 10, with a lot of time left on it.

 

[inmanlanier]

sboychuck - do you mind sharing the BSG price with us? I'm definitely in the same boat as you with high regard for the vehicle. It is garaged a good bit of the time, exterior excellent, some minor discoloration / stains on some of the cloth seating. I had put in a modern double din size head unit and a rear camera, upgraded the speakers 2 years ago. For the value to us, don't want to necessarily replace it.

 

[Joe S]

Getting ready to do the same thing with BSG...I live in Arizona and I have been getting quotes by auto haulers about getting to BSG to do all the work you had done...but you inspired me to road trip it...still waiting for a quote..

 

[Joe S]

I have a 2010 limited 2wd with 260,000 miles on it now and have owned it for 13 yrs. I also use 5w30 every 5,000 full synthetic oil. I said no to the current suv prices even with going to my credit union and told my wife I'm going to get everything fixed. I watched all the videos on the 5.4 that FordTechMakuloco did and went a head and called BSG Automotive (FordTechMakuloco) 181 Commercial Dr unit b, Yorkville, IL 60560 ph:630-687-1207 left a voice and sent an email about the issues i was having and what i needed fix and his recommendations.

It was the best $6,500 spent

Items replaced at 250,000 on original engine and transmission.

The following items are replaced during the service: chains, tensioners, guides, tensioner arms, VCT solenoids, phasers, Melling HV oil pump, gaskets and oil change after. two heater hoses, oil pan removal for clean out, all engine mounts, transmission mounts, coolant hoses, new water pump, new spark plugs, new rocker arm, valve lifter, follower lash adjusters.

All work was completed and done within 2 days.

Before I had all the work done I had all the u-joints replaced at local drive axel company. I did new rotors, pads and parking brake, replaced all suspension parts on the front end, inner and outer tie rods, lower and upper control arms, ball joints, sway bar links. I replaced all the rear trailing arms in the rear, lower control arms rear, rear diff drain and fill, replaced transmission pan (Dorman 265-854) with drain plug, gasket, drained and fill transmission all at home in the garage and made my oldest son help.


The truck drives like new, improved gas milage city and highway.

I did the drive from San Diego, CA to Yorkville, IL in 26 hours only took a 3 hour nap.

I'm getting ready to do the same thing...At first i was thinking of hiring a car transport company but they want $1300 one way and $2500 round trip...so im liking your idea of driving it instead....if you don't mind, I'm live in Arizona so basically same route you took,,,can you share your route and where did you stay while waiting for your car to get finished

 

[inmanlanier]

I'm getting ready to do the same thing...At first i was thinking of hiring a car transport company but they want $1300 one way and $2500 round trip...so im liking your idea of driving it instead....if you don't mind, I'm live in Arizona so basically same route you took,,,can you share your route and where did you stay while waiting for your car to get finished

Not sure how many miles you have on your car - but if alot (like 260K), you may wish to consider an entire remanufactured engine swap. If I had that many miles, likely a reman engine would be my choice.

 

[Joe S]

I just turned 130,000 and my Car is running great! but I was thinking of getting a newer car until i saw prices...that's when i decided to possibly put money into my Expedition. Bought it new and always garaged...but not sure if the money BSG automotive charges ($6500) to do all the work is worth the value of my car....when everything is original...tranny and so on...wouldn't want a money pit and I've reviewed some remanufactured engine builders and most of them have crappy reviews...at least i know the history of my car and all the maintenance I've done over the 13 years

 

[Joe S]

2012 Limited Tuxedo Black 4x4 with 130,000 original with all maintenance done up to date...no internal work as of yet

 

[inmanlanier]

I just turned 130,000 and my Car is running great! but I was thinking of getting a newer car until i saw prices...that's when i decided to possibly put money into my Expedition. Bought it new and always garaged...but not sure if the money BSG automotive charges ($6500) to do all the work is worth the value of my car....when everything is original...tranny and so on...wouldn't want a money pit and I've reviewed some remanufactured engine builders and most of them have crappy reviews...at least i know the history of my car and all the maintenance I've done over the 13 years

As you likely know, I am the OP on this thread. Like you, I see the more modern cars as so complicated it's nearly impossible to avoid part or software failures. We have a '22 Lincoln Aviator that's had numerous warranty repairs, and I just posted on my son-in-law's '21 (I think) Expedition with the transmission on it's own shifting into neutral. I garage my Expy, and we like it so much I've decided that I'll replace an engine or tranny before I'll replace the car. Even though its just an LT EXP - it's very comfortable on the highway, quiet, and my towing mule for my 6000# plus boat.

I came up with a failure rate of 3% on can phaser related failures for these 5.4 engines of our vintage based on research before (don't remember where I found that number but being an engineer in Nuclear Power I carefully review failure data when available). By that I mean unless someone has a better number it's likely that's a representative number. That's not high. I'm not sure how much of the failures are maintenance related (i.e. poor oil) or marginal design, or part failure - but with this thread and others my understanding got validated (more or less). I see many engines going very many miles, and I see just a few failures; for the most part none catastrophic with owners who are observant folks that did not ignore the symptoms.

Regarding your comment on a replacement motor, I would not consider any fly by night engine rebuilder, but from a quick search, Fred Jones is still the Ford authorized rebuilder (neat history on the dude). I bought one of their short-blocks for my hand-me-down '88 Lincoln Continental years ago. It had a 36K mile warranty. From what I could visually inspect, they did a good job with the motor. We had no issues and the car was sold years later running fine.

Since a dear friend of mine (in the auto business - races cars still like I used to) - he experienced the cam phaser issues with his Expedition - in his case, and more or less affirmed by this thread's responses and other site postings - catastrophic failures do not occur with this issue. He had a wiped follower and cam. When I reached out to his mechanic for an estimate, the gent essentially said - if you wish to waste the money (having no current symptoms), I'm happy to take your money letting you feel better. If it were me (the mechanic), however - don't do squat until you have symptoms.

We will have symptoms long before the the issue is of concern. Even if you catch it late, you may have to buy a follower or two, or perhaps a cam - only a few hundred dollars more in parts cost. In the context of a nominal $6500 repair - I see that as a chump change adder and have decided to 'run to failure'. By that I mean, I'm not doing squat until I start to get the tap, tap, tap sounds on startup.

So, Joe S, I thought you may wish to get my perspective. I am a Mechanical Engineer from Georgia Tech, hands on field experience working Nuclear Power most of my career with much equipment (specializing in valves). I've been a gear head all my life (first tune up in High School to my parent's '69 Lincoln Continental). I have built a few engines, built a Factory Five Cobra, raced it - etc. I've been running synthetic oil at extended mileage intervals and getting periodic engine oil analysis since the 80s when I ran Amsoil. I'm not trying to pound my chest here but trying to give some perspective as to my background if it helps you make your decision. I've experienced ZERO symptoms - so at ~114K miles with my 2012 Expedition, based on all the data I've found - I'm confident doing nothing until symptoms present themselves.

Thanks to all of you on this post that answered my requests to give me the data that helped me make my decision.

 

[Joe S]

I appreciate and value your response....however, you said the magic words "or the most part none catastrophic with owners who are observant folks that did not ignore the symptoms....that's the problem i see, not that many owners are that observant! i think my 5.4 is running great but sometimes I question what i hear...i have recorded my car running and I think it sounds normal...but unless a person has personal knowledge or knows what sounds to listen for in this engine, its Russian Roulette...to me, I don't like giving away my money, but i surely don't like waiting for something to happen especially if you are a long trip from home....preventative maintenance or an insurance policy as i call it, makes sense but highly expensive...on the other hand, new cars with very little mileage also can also have major problems as I once had with a brand new 1989 Mustang GT...right off the Dealer lot started sucking down oil a quart a month...Dealer told me that the Ford engineer said that was normal according to Ford maintenance standards...I called ******** and the Ford Customer representative authorized a Brand new engine replacement...oh well...decisions decisions

FYI, I also have '22 Lincoln Nautilus 2.7 twin Ts and only have 15,000 miles on it and i know they have problems as well/..but so far had no issues and no warranty repair required