j05gtvert/05lim
Member
i saw on tv where some trucks with 5.4's in them from 05+ were flex fuel capable. were any expedetions available with this option? if so how would you know, i bought this with a few miles on it. and exactly what is flex fuel
flex fuel, what vehicles from ford are capable
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jimboh247
Active Member
As far as I know, there are no Expeditions that are flex fuel. Flex fuel is the ability to burn regular gas or E85, which is 85% ethanol, 15% gas.
smo0othride
Full Access Members
green03
Full Access Members
I am trying out e85 in my 03. I have 36lb injectors that I installed when I put the supercharger on (no kit for my year, made my own). I have more injector than I need and that's what's required when running on E85, you need up to 30 percent bigger injectors for the extra fuel needed at WOT over Gas only. For the most part, the rest of the system is compatible. I can go into great detail if you guys want, but you can mix 30 percent e85 with 70 percent regular gas and you shouldn't have any problems.
Matt
Matt
jimboh247
Active Member
Fill us in. Unfortunately in NC there is only about 10 stations that carry E85, and the closest to me is about 50 miles away. Never the less, I'm interested in what you've learned.
green03
Full Access Members
Well if I was a automotive engineer (which I am not, but think I could be...LOL) and had to design a vehicle to run on today's E10 (which most of you have been putting in your tank and not knowing it), I would design the fuel system components to withstand much higher concentrations. So I'm 99 percent sure that most cars made in the last 10 years are compatible fuel system (hardware) wise. The only possible issue would be the total fuel injector capacity. E85 may need another 20-30 percent more injector/ fuel pump capacity than your current fuel needs, but those of you with a completely stock vehicle shouldn't have a problem since the factory usually gives this much extra margin.
Now for the hard part...
The calibration on FlexFuel vehicles incorporate a fuel sensor that determines the concentration of alchohol in the fuel and sends that value to the PCM via it's frequency signal similar to how the barometric pressure sensor does. This way it automatically advances the timing and increases fuel delivery to keep everything in check.
I am working on a way to do this manually right now by manipulating some sensor values to get the desired results.
For anyone who wants to try I can burn chips that would make things Kosher with the E85. I have the ability to do 6 position chips thus allowing 6 different programs to allow you to use e85 and switch back again. Unfortunately I can't do chips on my truck because it uses the newer style computer that can only be flashed so I am trying to come with another way to make the adjustments externally. The Expeds 02 and older can take a chip.
If any of you guys want to try a chip out that would let you run on e85 and switch back to your regular tune I can burn some. You will have to wait untill I get settled back in Houston in a month or so.
Now for the hard part...
The calibration on FlexFuel vehicles incorporate a fuel sensor that determines the concentration of alchohol in the fuel and sends that value to the PCM via it's frequency signal similar to how the barometric pressure sensor does. This way it automatically advances the timing and increases fuel delivery to keep everything in check.
I am working on a way to do this manually right now by manipulating some sensor values to get the desired results.
For anyone who wants to try I can burn chips that would make things Kosher with the E85. I have the ability to do 6 position chips thus allowing 6 different programs to allow you to use e85 and switch back again. Unfortunately I can't do chips on my truck because it uses the newer style computer that can only be flashed so I am trying to come with another way to make the adjustments externally. The Expeds 02 and older can take a chip.
If any of you guys want to try a chip out that would let you run on e85 and switch back to your regular tune I can burn some. You will have to wait untill I get settled back in Houston in a month or so.
green03
Full Access Members
well.... my lines are stainless steel and the fuel tank is polycarbonate plastic and all of the o-rings are synthetic rubber and the flex lines are teflon...... Mine may be different than everyone elses for some reason.... maybe since it was certified for California they may have been planning to make it flex fuel but never finished. There are also inputs in py PCM calibration for a flex fuel sensor so that really makes me think they were planning that very thing.
I have full control of my calibration with some dyno shop-grade software that is only matched by what Ford has.
Matt
I have full control of my calibration with some dyno shop-grade software that is only matched by what Ford has.
Matt
Last edited:
smo0othride
Full Access Members
how much is e85 per gallon and do you get the same mpg?
green03
Full Access Members
So far I am getting about 10% less economy but if the timing wasn't upped accrodingly it would probably loose 20%. I actually have a very aggressive tune in the truck for Premimum right now and the e85 likes even more timing than that that I am adjusting via some external source that I am changing on the fly.
Right now E85 is 2.61 a gallon when Premimum is 3.15. Once this stuff gets popular, the price difference will be even greater. It is cleaning the heck out of my piston tops and backside of my valves as well. I popped out an injector to see what was happening and the backside of the valve is sparkling now where it had some carbon buildup before. I have also noticed the engine is much quieter now on the E85 after a couple of tanks.
I notice you have an 03 as well, is your tank completely plastic and the fuel lines stainless steel as well or is mine just a freak?
Matt
Right now E85 is 2.61 a gallon when Premimum is 3.15. Once this stuff gets popular, the price difference will be even greater. It is cleaning the heck out of my piston tops and backside of my valves as well. I popped out an injector to see what was happening and the backside of the valve is sparkling now where it had some carbon buildup before. I have also noticed the engine is much quieter now on the E85 after a couple of tanks.
I notice you have an 03 as well, is your tank completely plastic and the fuel lines stainless steel as well or is mine just a freak?
Matt
smo0othride
Full Access Members
I don't work on my truck because I don't have any tools or any place to work on it so I've never noticed before. Can the tank and lines be seen from just stooping down and looking under? If so, I'll take a look and let you know.
green03
Full Access Members
The tank is black plastic and it has a number of 2l1u-9002-a near the rear cast on the bottom.
green03
Full Access Members
Here is a pic of the fuel lines. The rubber hoses are just covers over the hard high pressure hose. This is in front of the tank above the transfer case on my 4x4 if you have a 2wd then the hard lines will start behind the transmission.
green03
Full Access Members
Well, the E85 experiment went well, unfortunately I am moving back to Houston this weekend and we all know that there aren't but one public station in the whole state......
Found out a few things:
Gas mileage takes a 10-15% hit depending on driving speed or in town/highway.
Ignition timing must be increased with this fuel otherwise it runs like a complete turd...... Power was better at WOT with the e85 once the timing was advanced.
The exhaust smells like someone's breath who just left the bar when you first start the truck on a cold morning...
The E85 is a very good cleaner. The truck actually smoked for a few days at startup untill all the carbon was gone fron the back of the intake valve and pistons. The inside of the exhaust pipe even started turning a light grey color instead of black.
You will get a check engine code if you don't change the calibration because my fuel trims go up 32% when running on straight e85. My stock calibration only allowed up to 30% correction and threw a code for "bank too lean".
Anyone wanting to try this stuff out I can give you a few pointers or help you with a tune...
Matt
Found out a few things:
Gas mileage takes a 10-15% hit depending on driving speed or in town/highway.
Ignition timing must be increased with this fuel otherwise it runs like a complete turd...... Power was better at WOT with the e85 once the timing was advanced.
The exhaust smells like someone's breath who just left the bar when you first start the truck on a cold morning...
The E85 is a very good cleaner. The truck actually smoked for a few days at startup untill all the carbon was gone fron the back of the intake valve and pistons. The inside of the exhaust pipe even started turning a light grey color instead of black.
You will get a check engine code if you don't change the calibration because my fuel trims go up 32% when running on straight e85. My stock calibration only allowed up to 30% correction and threw a code for "bank too lean".
Anyone wanting to try this stuff out I can give you a few pointers or help you with a tune...
Matt
green03
Full Access Members
Just checking if anybody else has messed with E85 lately..... Just digging up this thread.
Matt R
Matt R
ELVATO
Full Access Members
Hmm...don't know if there any E85 stations near by.
Maybe one in Tallahasee.
I always thought that E85 wasn't really worth it, or something like that.
Maybe one in Tallahasee.
I always thought that E85 wasn't really worth it, or something like that.
Thought I'd bump this thread. Anyone using E85 in their Expedition or seriously considering it? I was wondering about trying one of the conversion kits, e.g. from Full Flex international, but I'm not 100% convinced on how well it works. I believe it extends the pulse to open the fuel injectors slightly longer and deliver more fuel if E85 is used, but how does it know that? Also how does it recognize a mixture of E85 and regular 87 octane?
(An E85 pump just sprouted up near my house, hence my interest in taking advantage of the lower cost/green credentials.)
(An E85 pump just sprouted up near my house, hence my interest in taking advantage of the lower cost/green credentials.)
green03
Full Access Members
I can do a tune for your truck that allows you to run the stuff...... it will automatically adjust for the stuff via the o2 sensors. Let me know...
Matt R
Matt R
AvroAero
Full Access Members
Interesting. Would be nice to run this stuff for a while to clean the engine out a bit. Wonder what it does to the cats.
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