‘19 surging when towing, what could it be?

[Jettix2]

Multiple issues going on. Have Ford ESP.

My 19’ Platinum Max had the CDF drum replaced under warranty back in October 2023 with about 42k on the clock. It’s at 55k now and we’ve recently had a couple of real harsh and a couple of delayed shifts. Trans 100% needs to be rebuilt or replaced again, it goes to the dealer in 2 weeks. That’s issue #1.

To add insult to injury, we have a hesitation/surging issue as well that they need to address. Seems a little uneven when accelerating empty, hook our small boat up behind it and it’s super obvious.

Last Expy we had needed VCT solenoid and cam phasers, wondering if this is the case on this one too?? Does either of these cause drivability issues??

It also seems to run very very hot when towing lightly just a Short distance.

No CELs.

Any thoughts?

 

[JasonH]

Get an OBD reader and monitor the temps, boost, etc. while towing. If you're in the higher gears while towing, it will spool the turbos, which generates heat. You might consider locking out the top gears. See here for my towing screen setup.

 

[skamerick]

JasonH's comments are absolutely correct. While the twin turbo is an awesome engine for towing, the turbos generate tremendous amounts of heat when under pressure (like towing). I have a 2017 Limited with the HD towing package. When I first starting towing my 7,000 lb trailer I was shocked at how quickly the operating temp rose. Following a ton of research I learned about turbo engines. Here is what I did. I purchased an OBD reader so I could watch the temp more closely. As the PSI on the turbo increased, so did the temp. Dropping the gears from 5 to 4 to 3 you'll be amazed watching the temp drop. Another thing I learned was about a cold side thermostat (it has two ports for movement of water instead of just one). After I installed the cold side thermostat my operating temp dropped 30 degrees. It too bad Ford doesn't educate its drivers better.

 

[Calidad]

Definitely easy to heat up the 3.5 especially given the turbo power. Lots of people tow with little awareness of how hard they are pushing things especially with powerful engines where its not obvious how hard your push it etc.

 

[Jettix2]

Get an OBD reader and monitor the temps, boost, etc. while towing. If you're in the higher gears while towing, it will spool the turbos, which generates heat. You might consider locking out the top gears. See here for my towing screen setup.

Yes, I can definitely see towing hard with this 3.5TT would generate a ton of heat. We typically use my 18 Cummins to tow everything (mostly our TT) but for this 5 mile trip to the lake with pontoon boat, we had an extra person so the Expedition was our choice.

The shifting is back to pre-rebuild level of harsh after 13,000 miles, which is depressing. I've got real bad 3-5 upshift delay when cold, and an occasional 7-5 downshift that slams on a certain stretch of road normally. My guess is that there is debris or ? in the trans after the CDF replacement, and we're looking at another rebuild.

The elavated towing temps are likely due to the huge drag from towing that pontoon, which even at 3,000# loaded (maybe? LOL), is a huge wind drag.

What does not make sense is the SURGING I've got when loaded/under throttle going uphill. Most noticable when towing, but it does it without a trailer behind it. I can sometimes see the turbo guage "flutter" during this behavior, which has me puzzled. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks guys

Kinda frustrating......I love this vehicle, just like we loved out our 18. But, the complexity is really crazy on these, and it doesn't seem like Ford was really up to task (at least on the early 4th Gens) in component durability. Once we get this into the shop next Monday and have diagnosed, I need to decide long-term plans. I've got ESP warranty to about 100k (currently at 55k) but it's a PITA getting it serviced all the time. As it is, next week we're taking daughter for a couple of college tours, and we're going to take my 3/4 Ram instead of the Expedition, which is going to be in the shop

 

[Craig Payne]

I can't tell whether you have the heavy tow package as well, and the other advice in this thread is decent advice depending on your circumstances and the model year of your vehicle. That said, I have been towing with my 2018 Expedition for a long time and I just can't imagine anything you could do that would cause such significant heat generation from the engine or turbo's that the system can't manage for a 5 mile trip with a pontoon boat. Potentially if you're driving 90 MPH for those 5 miles. If you are getting heat issues or warnings for a 5-mile trip with a 3,000 pound boat, I'd say you have a significant issues with the cooling system at minimum, potentially a transmission issue as well.

 

[Jettix2]

I can't tell whether you have the heavy tow package as well, and the other advice in this thread is decent advice depending on your circumstances and the model year of your vehicle. That said, I have been towing with my 2018 Expedition for a long time and I just can't imagine anything you could do that would cause such significant heat generation from the engine or turbo's that the system can't manage for a 5 mile trip with a pontoon boat. Potentially if you're driving 90 MPH for those 5 miles. If you are getting heat issues or warnings for a 5-mile trip with a 3,000 pound boat, I'd say you have a significant issues with the cooling system at minimum, potentially a transmission issue as well.

Yes I have max tow. Trans temp was 214F after towing the pontoon 5 miles at about 55mph. Something def seems amiss.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

my 2019 with max tow hauled my ~ 5000 lb travel trailer through 9900 miles of Mexico Jan-May without trans overheating. I did use 'tow/haul' mode almost all the time. We mostly cruised around 50-55MPH on the toll highways (similar to US freeways) and took it pretty easy in the mountains. Truck was pretty heavily loaded with gear for this 4 month road trip, too.


(last day before crossing over to Nogales AZ)

 

[Calidad]

By the way 200-210 is typical running temperature of the transmission. The fan kicks in around 214. 230 is “HOT” 250 is limp mode. I’m hauling my boat back south next week glad for cooler temps. I’ll watch the trans temps. Long climbs 120 125 might happen but shouldn’t be an issue

 

[Calidad]

By the way 200-210 is typical running temperature of the transmission. The fan kicks in around 214. 230 is “HOT” 250 is limp mode. I’m hauling my boat back south next week glad for cooler temps. I’ll watch the trans temps. Long climbs 22- 225 might happen but shouldn’t be an issue. Couple of tough climbs, but outside temps should be down next week

Just typical around town no load 190-214 is common.

 

[Calidad]

Ok not done with my 776 mile haul yet. But 8000lbs 13ft high 9.9 wide boat across a couple of west coast passes. Today 101-103 outside temps.

55-60 mph top gear 8th, typical gear 7th, and climbing gears 6,5,4 and yes 3. We ran AC on the flats zero issues, once outside temps hit high 90’s the coolant temp would spike which triggers actual temp display next to the dummy gauge 228 was the bottom any lower it goes away very quick to drop when you cut the ac or if in a heavy long climb run the back or both heaters. Like 30 seconds **** back to normal temps.

Transmission normal range is 200-214.

All my hard long climbs I found 2100-2200 rpm was the magic zone lots of power and transmission temps didn’t spike hard. Worst climb 5 mile 6% in 103 temps we crested the top at 235 no warnings or limp modes 250 is limp mode. In extreme cases 103 temps and brutal long climbs dragging a huge ass boat the rear and front heaters at full blast with windows down is extremely quick at cooling temps down on the dash.

Basically worst case situation it was very easy to manage heat spikes and keep the Expedition in a safe but occasionally warm zone being pushed hard.

Only times I was pushing 3500+ rpm were engine braking cases. Even steep freeway ramps 3500 was all that was needed for a very short get up to speed effort.

I’m only doing 55-60mph when your 54ft long and over 9ft wide thats plenty fast. 9.4 mpg has been my average for the last 500 miles.

Transmission temps spiking to 219-225 are easily managed by dropping rpms below 2500, and if temp keeps creeping up run the heaters.

Little trick no rear passengers? Crank the rear heat open the windows, turn off front ac but skip the front heat. Still sheds lots of heat and you definitely see temps drop pretty quickly.
This is an extreme case. This isn’t a trip I’d make on a regular basis. F250 would be my choice for a regular case.

This adventure is bringing a boat home from a place it will probably never return to. And future tows will be nothing remotely as extreme.

 

[JasonH]

This adventure is bringing a boat home from a place it will probably never return to. And future tows will be nothing remotely as extreme.

Thanks for explaining why you're hauling a boat so far, because inquiring minds want to know. My office manager hauled hauled his last boat from Texas to Irvine. Are long distance purchases a normal thing for boat buyers?

 

[Calidad]

Bought a boat in Seattle brought it home to CA Friday. Had to get a diesel 2500 GMC to do the final pass into the Sierras. Didn’t cook the EXP just knew we weren’t going to do the rest of the climb from 5000ft to 7200. 20 miles from home base. No big deal. Engine temps were normal whole trip. Transmission temps were the Clear must watch item. But easy to manage. When your clearly over capacity your only going a few 100ft before you see trans temps rising fast. If its rising pretty quickly over 214 up to 219-220 pull over let it run and cool off. It will continue to rise 2-3 degrees for a few minutes but begin cooling down. 80 degree day with heaters on figure 15min to see a drop to 210 ish on trans temp

 

[Calidad]

I don’t recommend doing this. But in a pinch 8200lbs 740 mile trip with the worst climb 5 mile 4-6% varying grades in 80-90 degree temps. 2000-2200 rpm is the best for heat management and forward progress.

Flat towing in 100-103 temps same 2000-2100 6-7th gear occasionally 8th on down hill ish runs works best.

My truck is intact never cooked but we did stop for a couple of cool downs when we hit 219 trans temp with more climb left ahead of us in hot 90+ outside temps.

Coolant temp if it warms up past center it will pop up actual temp next to the dummy gauge 228 is the trigger point, once it drops below 228 it reverts to the dummy gauge. Super quick to drop coolant temp by slowing down, dropping RPMs to the 2000-2100 range lighter throttle, run heater etc. Like a minute or less to drop temp if you take action right when it spikes its a quick easy effort to drop temp.
In case your wondering I had 2.5inch squat. Truck was empty except two adults and 60lbs of gear. Trailer is electric / Hydraulic 4 disc brakes serious brake power. Lots of hauling experience it wasn’t as good as a F250 but can get the job done if your cautious and know what your doing.
Fully permitted in three states not hassled by any highway patrol entire trip.

Mileage ran between 9.4mpg and 7.4mpg.

Higher RPMs 2500-3000 most definitely generate far more heat. Likely related to turbo heat under harder throttle.

Power? Easily accelerated to highway speeds even with short rampand steep climb, power is definitely NOT an issue its cooling you run out of quickly especially 2500+ rpm.

I can see people easily cooking the 3.5 and 10spd because of its huge torque and power under heavy load without paying attention to temps