1181 engine hrs, 161 hrs idle, 63500 km , 5 recorded oil changes (+1). what does that tell you?

[chuck s]

If you or others are curious get the Blackstone Laboratories kit (it's free) and have your engine oil analyzed. Pull the warm sample mid drain or via the dipstick if not changing the oil. Including mailing the sample to Indiana and their testing the results only take a few days. Kit is free. You pay for the test. (There are sample reports on their web page.)

The report has the raw data as well as a narrative of any problems or potential problems. They test enough engines similar to yours (and mine) that it's easy to compare results. They also have an "extended" oil change recommendation which I use as my little 2-seater gets few mines a year and the test prevents me from dumping perfectly good oil every couple thousand miles. Good full synthetic doesn't go belly up after 12 months it's mileage or engine hours that count.

Read the sample reports on their website. The analysis will point out problems that a simple oil change can't fix no matter how frequently it's done.

-- Chuck

 

[Mr Big]

My oil analysis and actual life experience extremely disagree with your opinion.

Unfortunately, your oil analysis and actual life experience may be inaccurate.

Quote from master mechanic:
"Your exhaust powers the turbos, and turbos have moving parts which spin at really high speeds, under enormous heat and pressure. They need a constant flow of quality engine oil to lubricate the compression valve and intake and outlet fans, to reduce wear and help them perform at their best. Engine oil’s so important that some high-end turbo systems have a dedicated oil reservoir which circulates oil through the turbo. For the best performance from a turbocharger, change the oil at least every 5,000 miles, replacing it with a full synthetic oil which is the right API for your car’s engine type and the proper air filter for your vehicle."
I use Motorcraft as specified because it has an Anti-drain back valves to help prevent dry starts.

Test: Drive your vehicle 3-5k and drain oil. Save that oil. Then drive however long you want to drive and drain your oil. There is a huge difference. You will actually see a drastic color difference because of the exhaust contamination. The twin turbos in these vehicles will last almost forever if you are regimental in changing your oil every 3-5k and use full synthetic and a Motorcraft filter. The reason is, even though there is little breakdown of the ingredients, there is a vast amount of residue buildup, from the exhaust, that can clog the turbo ports. A great amount of oil passes through the turbos, and even the smallest amount of residue can build up. So, the clean oil washes away the residue, keeping the turbo moving parts cleaner.

 

[Woodwolf]

Unfortunately, your oil analysis and actual life experience may be inaccurate.

Quote from master mechanic:
"Your exhaust powers the turbos, and turbos have moving parts which spin at really high speeds, under enormous heat and pressure. They need a constant flow of quality engine oil to lubricate the compression valve and intake and outlet fans, to reduce wear and help them perform at their best. Engine oil’s so important that some high-end turbo systems have a dedicated oil reservoir which circulates oil through the turbo. For the best performance from a turbocharger, change the oil at least every 5,000 miles, replacing it with a full synthetic oil which is the right API for your car’s engine type and the proper air filter for your vehicle."
I use Motorcraft as specified because it has an Anti-drain back valves to help prevent dry starts.

Test: Drive your vehicle 3-5k and drain oil. Save that oil. Then drive however long you want to drive and drain your oil. There is a huge difference. You will actually see a drastic color difference because of the exhaust contamination. The twin turbos in these vehicles will last almost forever if you are regimental in changing your oil every 3-5k and use full synthetic and a Motorcraft filter. The reason is, even though there is little breakdown of the ingredients, there is a vast amount of residue buildup, from the exhaust, that can clog the turbo ports. A great amount of oil passes through the turbos, and even the smallest amount of residue can build up. So, the clean oil washes away the residue, keeping the turbo moving parts cleaner.

thanks Mr Big, that is what I was thinking, because i was wondering why the oil gets black this fast

 

[Dice Roll]

Unfortunately, your oil analysis and actual life experience may be inaccurate.

Quote from master mechanic:
"Your exhaust powers the turbos, and turbos have moving parts which spin at really high speeds, under enormous heat and pressure. They need a constant flow of quality engine oil to lubricate the compression valve and intake and outlet fans, to reduce wear and help them perform at their best. Engine oil’s so important that some high-end turbo systems have a dedicated oil reservoir which circulates oil through the turbo. For the best performance from a turbocharger, change the oil at least every 5,000 miles, replacing it with a full synthetic oil which is the right API for your car’s engine type and the proper air filter for your vehicle."
I use Motorcraft as specified because it has an Anti-drain back valves to help prevent dry starts.

Test: Drive your vehicle 3-5k and drain oil. Save that oil. Then drive however long you want to drive and drain your oil. There is a huge difference. You will actually see a drastic color difference because of the exhaust contamination. The twin turbos in these vehicles will last almost forever if you are regimental in changing your oil every 3-5k and use full synthetic and a Motorcraft filter. The reason is, even though there is little breakdown of the ingredients, there is a vast amount of residue buildup, from the exhaust, that can clog the turbo ports. A great amount of oil passes through the turbos, and even the smallest amount of residue can build up. So, the clean oil washes away the residue, keeping the turbo moving parts cleaner.

Fortunately, I was here to answer the man’s question with my data driven decision making. He wanted to know if he should be concerned and I posted my opinion that he will be ok because of what I have actually done in life. Not the useless conjecture you’ve brought to the table.

You can dump oil anytime you please. You can carry a pail of it to the grave of Rockefeller and hold a vigil. I don’t care. Nobody should. It’s your business. However, if you want to continue to be wrong, go right ahead and make a false claim about my life experience. You’re wrong now, you will continue to be. My life experience is what it is and you can’t change that.

 

[Mr Big]

Fortunately, I was here to answer the man’s question with my data driven decision making. He wanted to know if he should be concerned and I posted my opinion that he will be ok because of what I have actually done in life. Not the useless conjecture you’ve brought to the table.

You can dump oil anytime you please. You can carry a pail of it to the grave of Rockefeller and hold a vigil. I don’t care. Nobody should. It’s your business. However, if you want to continue to be wrong, go right ahead and make a false claim about my life experience. You’re wrong now, you will continue to be. My life experience is what it is and you can’t change that.

I'm here for the same thing, but using statistical facts of many skilled technicians, not one driver. I gave the OP facts to go off of, not just my opinion that he will be ok because you are. He can take those facts and your personal opinion, to make his own decision. This is what Forums are all about. Your statement shows everyone your opinion is the only thing that matters, and all mechanics and their statistics are wrong.

I did not insult you, and I surely did not try to change your life experience or claim yours was wrong. I started with "Agree to disagree" and posted based on Certified Mechanic's facts, where your post is one person's experience, which is also a fact based on that experience.

People, on forums, agree and disagree all the time. In the end we participants reap the benefits of suggestions and experiences. Most don't act immature and insult someone for disagreeing.

 

[JExpedition07]

Saying change the oil more to avoid these issues is like saying a 5.4 3V will be ok if you change the oil. It won’t. It’s still dealing with oil supply and weak parts issues (18-20). It’s still going to break. Keep a phaser fund, even if you change the oil every 10 miles.

 

[Yupster Dog]

You’re wrong now, you will continue to be. My life experience is what it is and you can’t change that.

So now you can see the future? Your life experience is worth telling but it doesn't set precedence for everyone else.
Calm down and be respectful like everyone else is being.

Not the useless conjecture you’ve brought to the table.

How do you know? The only thing you have gone off of is life experience for you. It is different for everyone (just incase you didn't know)

Fortunately, I was here to answer the man’s question with my data driven decision making.

Yes your life experience is exactly what everyone should do........ignorant statement.

I'm here for the same thing, but using statistical facts of many skilled technicians, not one driver. I gave the OP facts to go off of, not just my opinion that he will be ok because you are. He can take those facts and your personal opinion, to make his own decision. This is what Forums are all about. Your statement shows everyone your opinion is the only thing that matters, and all mechanics and their statistics are wrong.

I did not insult you, and I surely did not try to change your life experience or claim yours was wrong. I started with "Agree to disagree" and posted based on Certified Mechanic's facts, where your post is one person's experience, which is also a fact based on that experience.

People, on forums, agree and disagree all the time. In the end we participants reap the benefits of suggestions and experiences. Most don't act immature and insult someone for disagreeing.

In case you missed it Dice, read this before posting again.

 

[Woodwolf]

anybody cares to go back to comment on my original observations and questions about overall engine running time vs. Idle time , impact on oil etc

 

[Mr Big]

anybody cares to go back to comment on my original observations and questions about overall engine running time vs. Idle time , impact on oil etc

There are tons of articles on the subject.
One states:
Car idling burns oil. The longer you leave your engine running means the more oil that has to circulate and burn. That means more frequent oil changes.
Equally concerning is how car idling, over time, decreases your vehicle's performance. It causes the spark plugs, head gasket, and cylinder rings to deteriorate and eventually stop working. And it drains your battery because the battery cannot recharge, causing it to strain.

Another article:
The detrimental effects of high idle times are numerous:

• Decreased fuel economy, Incomplete fuel combustion, leading to fuel dilution and lowered oil viscosity, additive concentration and oil pressure – all of which increase the risk of wear, Increased oil consumption.

Another:
Excessive fuel accumulates, which causes carbon buildup, and cylinder washing - meaning that unburnt fuel ends up in your oil, causing unnecessary wear and depleting oil life. Furthermore, at low idle speeds your engine doesn’t lubricate as well as it does even slightly above idle. Poor oil circulation can be disastrous for an engine, or at the very least will cause it to wear out faster.
Idling is also equivalent to putting miles on your car. Just because the odometer isn’t racking up miles, doesn’t mean your engine isn’t feeling the wear and tear, and in many ways, it’s actually being harmed more than it would be at a steady cruising speed. Idling also causes unnecessary stress on components like electronic cooling fans.

They also state on average, one hour of idle time is equal to 30 miles of driving. I was not able to find concrete info on averages. I did see a few times that 15 to 20% idle vs. driving ratio is about average. The consensus was to avoid engine idling for longer than 5 minutes at a time when possible.

Hopefully this help.

 

[Woodwolf]

There are tons of articles on the subject.
One states:
Car idling burns oil. The longer you leave your engine running means the more oil that has to circulate and burn. That means more frequent oil changes.
Equally concerning is how car idling, over time, decreases your vehicle's performance. It causes the spark plugs, head gasket, and cylinder rings to deteriorate and eventually stop working. And it drains your battery because the battery cannot recharge, causing it to strain.

Another article:
The detrimental effects of high idle times are numerous:

• Decreased fuel economy, Incomplete fuel combustion, leading to fuel dilution and lowered oil viscosity, additive concentration and oil pressure – all of which increase the risk of wear, Increased oil consumption.

Another:
Excessive fuel accumulates, which causes carbon buildup, and cylinder washing - meaning that unburnt fuel ends up in your oil, causing unnecessary wear and depleting oil life. Furthermore, at low idle speeds your engine doesn’t lubricate as well as it does even slightly above idle. Poor oil circulation can be disastrous for an engine, or at the very least will cause it to wear out faster.
Idling is also equivalent to putting miles on your car. Just because the odometer isn’t racking up miles, doesn’t mean your engine isn’t feeling the wear and tear, and in many ways, it’s actually being harmed more than it would be at a steady cruising speed. Idling also causes unnecessary stress on components like electronic cooling fans.

They also state on average, one hour of idle time is equal to 30 miles of driving. I was not able to find concrete info on averages. I did see a few times that 15 to 20% idle vs. driving ratio is about average. The consensus was to avoid engine idling for longer than 5 minutes at a time when possible.

Hopefully this help.

Thank you Mr. : the reason I am so inquisitive about my twin Turbo Platinum is : I never owned a turbo vehicle, as I always distrusted them for reliability. Now learning about the Expedition's turbo related failures I want to avoid any owner mistakes in regards to driving, oil changes, idle and what have you. In this forum there is some really good info for a novice like me, but I am taken a little aback by the very negative comments some people have. I would very much prefer to keep the discussions on the practical matters. I love my EXP so far , have no choice because I have paid hard earned cash for it and can't afford to screw the vehicle up.
Despite what other forum fellows say and their diverging opinions, at this time I have made the following decisions: Oil will be changed all 6-7k /km using full synthetic Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30-API Service SP, Gas will be premium Ethanol free whenever I can get it (I already see a small improvement towing my KAWi Teryx). I can't afford taking chances.

First failure came yesterday in heavy rain, rear wiper stuck and seized up, Hope W40 will loosen it. But it feels like something in the linkage is swelling up or rusting. Motor end seems to be fine. Afraid to take a wrench on the glass part as I don't know (yet) how.

BTW: some people posting opinions from the South, never experienced the rotten conditions we have driving up here in Ontario, Canada; especially in winter when they soak the road with the liquid poison instead of mild salt or sand. One can see the vehicle rust before ones eyes. The stuff penetrates everything.

 

[Woodwolf]

2018-2020 EcoBoosts are flawed by design. Several have had incorrect castings/ casting debris in oil galleys causing oil flow issues to the heads and the phasers have a defective plastic locking pin that breaks due to oil starvation at startup when it’s being pounded on until oil pressure comes up. This also doesn’t account for the low oil pressure issues at hot idle with the “variable” oil pump, just gasoline on a fire. Saying change the oil more to avoid these issues is like saying a 5.4 3V will be ok if you change the oil. It won’t. It’s still dealing with oil supply and weak parts issues. It’s still going to break. Keep a phaser fund, even if you change the oil every 10 miles.

interesting

 

[Left Coast Geek]

These are also direct injection engines, that is inherently harsh on the oil, and the crankcase ventilation and EGR dumps a lot of carp into the intakes.

 

[Dice Roll]

I'm here for the same thing, but using statistical facts of many skilled technicians, not one driver. I gave the OP facts to go off of, not just my opinion that he will be ok because you are. He can take those facts and your personal opinion, to make his own decision. This is what Forums are all about. Your statement shows everyone your opinion is the only thing that matters, and all mechanics and their statistics are wrong.

I did not insult you, and I surely did not try to change your life experience or claim yours was wrong. I started with "Agree to disagree" and posted based on Certified Mechanic's facts, where your post is one person's experience, which is also a fact based on that experience.

People, on forums, agree and disagree all the time. In the end we participants reap the benefits of suggestions and experiences. Most don't act immature and insult someone for disagreeing.

No, you didn’t. You said my actual experience is “Inaccurate” and that shows you want the last word above all else. You are the opposite of what you are posting. Leave it at that, instead of saying my experience isnt what I said it was. That makes you wrong, every time. I never said your experience doesn’t count. For some reason you can’t post yours without attacking someone else, just because you disagree.

You clearly think only your opinion and experience is valid. I posted mine without quoting anybody to attack like you did.

I suppose you’d have him go trade a good running truck over this. Thats fine if you think it, but the 7600 mile oil changes haven’t hurt it so far, so I think it’ll be ok based on what I’ve done in life. You can keep on “giving me my opinion” or telling me “what your life was” if you want, you won’t be able to persuade me though.

 

[Dice Roll]

wow that discussion goes into some strong opinions. I am with the people erring on the safe side.
Can you guys look at and report on your ratio of engine hours to idle hours to see a comparison to mine?
161 Idle hours /over 1181 Total hours= 13.6% idle time on mine wen I got it

920 hours and 285 idling.

 

[Dice Roll]

So now you can see the future? Your life experience is worth telling but it doesn't set precedence for everyone else.
Calm down and be respectful like everyone else is being.

How do you know? The only thing you have gone off of is life experience for you. It is different for everyone (just incase you didn't know)

Yes your life experience is exactly what everyone should do........ignorant statement.

In case you missed it Dice, read this before posting again.

I posted what I posted. Post your stuff and move along. Telling me my life is “inaccurate” is as disrespectful as anything that could be posted.

i never said I could “see the future.” Anywhere. That’s a strawman argument. Please be respectful and just say your piece without that nonsense. You apparently think those predicting failure can see the future and because you agree with that crystal ball work are here to attack me, which is disrespectful.

 

[Yupster Dog]

You apparently think those predicting failure can see the future and because you agree with that crystal ball work are here to attack me, which is disrespectful.

The only one who is disrespectful is you. You would not have even seen me if you were not posting insults, calling people names and telling them your life experiences are all that matter. The fact that you can not see what is wrong with that speaks louder than anything I could write.

i never said I could “see the future.” Anywhere.

You’re wrong now, you will continue to be. My life experience is what it is

Telling someone they will continue to be wrong is an ignorant attempt to tell the future about someone you have never even met.
Ignorant statement.

Telling me my life is “inaccurate” is as disrespectful as anything that could be posted.

If that is what you got out of that maybe a comprehension class could help. While you are there, a manners class would help also. This is coming from my life experience with you. Not everyone here needs that, just you. See how that works? That first lesson was free.

You apparently think

Now you are telling me what I think?

Your Ignorance is showing.

 

[Woodwolf]

920 hours and 285 idling.

31% idle hours nearly 1/3 of time. City?

 

[Rivisio]

1100 hours
385 idle
32,000km on a 2020

 

[Woodwolf]

1100 hours
385 idle
32,000km on a 2020

35% idle
mine, wth approx. 13% seems to be an outlier. I am still trying to figure out if there is a correlation between Idle hours and equipment failures, need for oil changes etc.

 

[BSarchet]

So I cannot speak for Ford, but I’m in the trucking business and deal with large amounts of equipment. We have roughly 20,000 tractors with three OEM’s. And those warranty programs are predicated on idle percentages and fuel mileages in addition to total miles. All that to say at least in that world, idle is considered in wear on an engine and we adjust our oil change intervals accordingly. 35% idle seems high but I don’t know how Ford calculates that or even how to check it.