1998 Eddie Bauer with codes...Where do I start??

[Hoseman]

Hey guys, just looking for a little direction or confirmation.
Just put a brand new Ford Crate Motor in my Expy. 5.4 2v completely stock except for a few minor mods. True Duals with 2 high flow cats, Series 77 K&N cold air, JBA 1 5/8" primary ceramic shorty headers, & stock 3.73 gears with 33" tires.

The original motor finally gave up (burned or warped valves on #7 and #8, Loss of compression) with 195K and after sitting in the yard for a couple of years I decided to get it going again. Dropped in a new crate motor, cleaned the EGR ports in the manifold spacer, New EGR tube, New DPFE sensor, New Upstream O2's, New MAF (old one was not dirty), New IAT sensor, New Coils, New Injectors, New Motorcraft plugs, All new intake gaskets, New water pump, belts, hoses, New radiator, replaced several old vacuum hoses that were deteriorated, plus a few other things that needed attention like u-joints, shocks, tires, ect.

Here's my dilemma.. Before the old motor took a dive it was getting around 17 to 18 mpg. No codes, no CEL. This was with the K&N, True Duals but no headers, and 33" tires. After the new motor it started throwing codes P0133, P0401, P1131, P1132 and was getting horrible fuel mileage. Maybe 8 or 9mpg on a good day provided I wasn't driving into the wind. I pulled the manifold spacer and cleaned the EGR ports and cleaned the throttle body, I replaced both upstream O2 sensors, I replaced the DPFE sensor, installed all new Bosch injectors, and all new coils (still don't understand why the shop didn't install new coils and injectors on a brand new crate motor!!). This improved the fuel economy to about 11 or 12 mpg and stopped all the codes. Still seemed to be running rough and wasn't getting near the fuel mileage is was before the new motor so I replaced the MAF and IAT sensor. Running much smoother now but yesterday threw a couple of new codes. P0171 and P0174 which is system lean bank 1 and system lean bank 2. I know this can be a vacuum leak so I started looking for possible locations for a leak but haven't been able to locate anything. Fuel mileage hasn't changed and is still running around 12mpg.

Am I missing something? Is there a sensor that would effect fuel trim that I'm missing? I've seen some threads where a weak fuel pump can cause the P0171 and P0174 codes but would that cause the horrible fuel mileage? STFT and LTFT are all over the place with LTFT running consistently in the =25% range and the STFT ranging between -8 and +14. I have a PDF of live data if that would help.

Just trying to find a place to start and any help would be appreciated. Leaning toward a new fuel pump and filter but would like to have a little input from someone who knows a little more that what I do.

Thanks,

 

[Hamfisted]

Some vacuum leaks are really hard to find. I would recommend a smoke test of the intake system. The lean codes can also come from low fuel pressure but that's less common than the vacuum leak. How's your fuel pressure at the rail schrader valve ? You should see 45-55 psi. It should also hold about 25 psi after engine shutdown to aid in starting.

Mechanics Smoke Test Machine on Amazon

Fuel Pressure Test Kit on Amazon








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[Hoseman]

Haven't tested the fuel pressure yet, planning on doing that this evening. Got a really busy day planned and not sure I'll have time but I'm making an effort. LOL. I'll post those results as soon as I have them.

 

[JVinOlathe]

P0171 and P0174 inidcate one of 4 issues. Defective PCV valve; this an easy and inexpensive fix. A bad MAF sensor, you can clean it using MAF sensor cleaner only; any other cleaner wll ldamage the sensor. There are videos on the internet on how to test the MAF sensor using a voltmeter. The last and most likely is a vacuum leak. There are 3 ways of testin gthis, use a fluied like starting fluid and spray around hoses that could have leaks; if the iddle increase then you found your leak. The problem with this procedure is that you have to aim the fluid very close to the are awhere the leak is and some hoses are very hard to get to. The second method uses propane; it will get to places the fluid will not, but again, if you are not close to the leak it will not detect it. The third method is the smoke test that will ceratinly detect all leaks; many happen around the throtle body. Lsst, be sure to clean the throtle body; sometimes it gunks up and causes issues.

 

[Hoseman]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm finding it hard to find the time to dig into this, but hopefully it will ease up a little this weekend or maybe next week and I'll have a little extra time to really dig into the vacuum leak investigation. LOL. I'm leaning hard in that direction and will probably just replace the PCV valve just to be safe.

 

[Expd830]

I replaced my motor 2 months ago and all of the other parts my mechanic wanted to go new also, and when he was done nothing but perfection from this truck after 21 years!!!

 

[Hoseman]

Ok, so update on finding the issues with the codes. Took it to a mechanic friend who was going to try to track it down for me. Due to Ford limiting access to their programming for the older vehicles we ran into a dead end and he recommended a dealership who he trusted. That dealer went through it and found several problems. Found out the dealer who did the engine swap (Bud Shell Ford in Dexter, MO) reused the intake gaskets and one was leaking at the very back between the upper and lower intake. Also had a purge valve hose that had a vacuum leak that needed replaced. Smoke tested the entire system and found no other leaks so I thought I had it beat. So far I've replaced the MAF, IAT, IAC, DPFE sensor, New intake gaskets, and the thermostat assembly (Dealer reused the old thermostat when replacing the motor!!) After driving a few miles I popped the same three codes that I had narrowed it down to before taking it to a new dealer. P1401, P0171, & P0174. Due to the '98 OBDII being so primitive, he said there wasn't any definitive answer to what was wrong. Spent about 4 hours in Diag and he basically told me it was a rat's nest in the EVAP system. After some serious discussion, we decided we didn't want to jump into it for fear of chasing their tail and costing me an arm and a leg trying to find the sensor, solenoid, or valve that was causing the issue. Instead, I'll be tackling it myself and just working through the system until I find the problem. He said to start with the EGR and work from there to find the problem and I would just have to start replacing stuff until I found it. Talked to a local tuner and he told me the same thing. Truck is running great and performs like it should with a new motor except the fuel mileage. IT SUCKS!!! Replacing the EGR Valve and EGR Solenoid first and working my way back through the EVAP system until I can find the issue. Will probably end up replacing it all including the charcoal canister, purge solenoid, & fuel pump. In to deep to quit now, but sure looks like it's going to be hunt and peck until I find that elusive sensor that's causing all the problems. LOL.

 

[tekrsq]

Ok, so update on finding the issues with the codes. Took it to a mechanic friend who was going to try to track it down for me. Due to Ford limiting access to their programming for the older vehicles we ran into a dead end and he recommended a dealership who he trusted. That dealer went through it and found several problems. Found out the dealer who did the engine swap (Bud Shell Ford in Dexter, MO) reused the intake gaskets and one was leaking at the very back between the upper and lower intake. Also had a purge valve hose that had a vacuum leak that needed replaced. Smoke tested the entire system and found no other leaks so I thought I had it beat. So far I've replaced the MAF, IAT, IAC, DPFE sensor, New intake gaskets, and the thermostat assembly (Dealer reused the old thermostat when replacing the motor!!) After driving a few miles I popped the same three codes that I had narrowed it down to before taking it to a new dealer. P1401, P0171, & P0174. Due to the '98 OBDII being so primitive, he said there wasn't any definitive answer to what was wrong. Spent about 4 hours in Diag and he basically told me it was a rat's nest in the EVAP system. After some serious discussion, we decided we didn't want to jump into it for fear of chasing their tail and costing me an arm and a leg trying to find the sensor, solenoid, or valve that was causing the issue. Instead, I'll be tackling it myself and just working through the system until I find the problem. He said to start with the EGR and work from there to find the problem and I would just have to start replacing stuff until I found it. Talked to a local tuner and he told me the same thing. Truck is running great and performs like it should with a new motor except the fuel mileage. IT SUCKS!!! Replacing the EGR Valve and EGR Solenoid first and working my way back through the EVAP system until I can find the issue. Will probably end up replacing it all including the charcoal canister, purge solenoid, & fuel pump. In to deep to quit now, but sure looks like it's going to be hunt and peck until I find that elusive sensor that's causing all the problems. LOL.

Did you ever figure out the issue ??

 

[Hoseman]

Still working on it. I picked up a ForScan adapter and have been researching endlessly on what the problems might be. It did indicate I've got a small vacuum leak somewhere in the EVAP system but I haven't been able to track it down even with a smoke test. I haven't had a lot of time to work on it, but I picked up a new charcoal canister and canister vent solenoid last week to install as soon as I get a chance. Next step is going to be to drop the tank and replace everything on top of it. Might as well put everything in new condition that I can while I've got it out. It runs great, just gets crappy fuel mileage so I've been driving it hoping it will throw a code that will give away the problem. But that doesn't seem to be working, so now that it's cooled off and I'm not working in 110 degree temperatures I'll spend a little more time on it. Ordering an electric fan conversion to get rid of the behemoth that it came with as well as improve AC performance, and as soon as I get my EVAP problem solved it's getting a tune from 5Star Tuning. Even thought about putting a supercharger on it once I get everything straightened out, but haven't decided for sure yet. I don't want to try to make a Lightning out of it, just improve towing performance and everyday driveability.

 

[MesaGuy]

@Hoseman I hate to be the voice of pessimism on your fuel milage. (The EVAP,, good luck, that's solvable if you stay on it.) But 12MPG for the 97-2001 2V engines is in the window. (Mine has always gotten terrible milage, since brand new.) About 11.5 city, and 13.5-14.5 freeway. I have the 4x4 model '99, which is in constant AWD mode always.) Years that have the 2WD switch option do a little better, usually +1 MPG.

I hear people that have gotten what you used to get e.g. 17-18MPG, that is at the VERY high end of the scale, whereas 10-11 is the bottom. Common is GOOD is 13MPG city, and 15MPG freeway. Mine has always done worse. No codes, did have to replace the roller followers on the left (drivers) bank2 block, but basically stock. Its always just been a gas hog. Mine is also, to some extent expected to be on the low side, as I have the tow package...

That is the small tires, the limited slip diff, and the lowest gear ratio. That provided for maximum tow dead-start torque (by Ford), but it costs gas mileage. People getting 13MPG city, and 15-16MPG freeway usually have slightly larger tires, and a higher gear ratio, and most of them have 2WD only models.

 

[Hoseman]

@Hoseman I hate to be the voice of pessimism on your fuel milage. (The EVAP,, good luck, that's solvable if you stay on it.) But 12MPG for the 97-2001 2V engines is in the window. (Mine has always gotten terrible milage, since brand new.) About 11.5 city, and 13.5-14.5 freeway. I have the 4x4 model '99, which is in constant AWD mode always.) Years that have the 2WD switch option do a little better, usually +1 MPG.

I hear people that have gotten what you used to get e.g. 17-18MPG, that is at the VERY high end of the scale, whereas 10-11 is the bottom. Common is GOOD is 13MPG city, and 15MPG freeway. Mine has always done worse. No codes, did have to replace the roller followers on the left (drivers) bank2 block, but basically stock. Its always just been a gas hog. Mine is also, to some extent expected to be on the low side, as I have the tow package...

That is the small tires, the limited slip diff, and the lowest gear ratio. That provided for maximum tow dead-start torque (by Ford), but it costs gas mileage. People getting 13MPG city, and 15-16MPG freeway usually have slightly larger tires, and a higher gear ratio, and most of them have 2WD only models.

I hear you!! 10mpg average and 12mpg highway is what I'm getting right now. Before I started having problems, (Burned valve on passenger bank) I was getting 17-18mpg highway with 3.73 gears and 33x12.50/17 Mickey's. About 13mpg in town. I made a trip to Orlando and averaged almost 19mpg, but that was staying strictly at the speed limit and stock tires. I let my son drive it for a couple of years and then parked it due to the burned valve. It stayed parked for about 4 years until I decided to drop a crate motor in and put it back on the road. The dealer that put the motor in was supposed to give me a turn key truck for a daily driver. Fix all the codes, track down the problems, do a bumper to bumper service, and deliver a truck that I could just get in and drive. Long story short, the dealer (Bud Shell Ford in Dexter, MO) wouldn't return my phone calls or emails and so far I've had to replace the brand new (Autozone) battery they installed, rebuild both drive shafts, replace the idler pulley and tension arm, plus all the new stuff I mentioned in my initial post. It's been one heck of a journey, but I'm learning some stuff along the way. I'm sure once I get the EVAP system lined out it will improve some, I just don't know how much.
I'll update this thread as I journey along and find other issues. I'm sure once I replace the canister and solenoid (hopefully this weekend!!) I'll end up having to drop the tank, new fuel pump, new tank pressure sensor, new vacuum lines, & new vent valve. I guess once I get everything replaced I'll evaluate whether I keep throwing money at it or not. More than likely I will simply because I love the old truck and the newer ones just don't do for me what this one does.

 

[MesaGuy]

If you are going to do all that, then I would recommend spending another $60 (Amazon), and putting in a new DPFE valve in the engine compartment, downstream of the EGR valve. If that is operating poorly (but not technically failed) it can cost 2MPG. The code tests for that valve are not very good tests, they catch if it fails closed, in some models if it fails full open. You can test the DPFE valve by backprobing the return signal, and engine ground with a voltmeter. You disconnect the two vacuum hoses, and connect a foot or two of vacuum hose (clean enough for your lips), and suck a vacuum on it. Should register a voltage change (I think 5V on one, smaller on the reference tube.) But on your age truck, with that much sitting, I think I would just replace it. It is a diaphragm type of sensor that measure differential pressure, and they are only good for about 200K, or 20 years. Your 98 is over that both ways. Sometimes, the DPFE starts to "soft" fail, just not giving all that great a sense of the EGR flow (that's it job), and so the mixture ends up running rich (and wasting fuel) and costing you 2MPG or extreme cases more.

 

[JamaicaJoe]

"after sitting in the yard for a couple of years I decided to get it going again" Bad fuel? Change fuel filter?

 

[Hoseman]

So, finally get a chance to update on the Expy. Here's what I've come up with so far and this has all been done in the last 8 to 10 months. Had some help from a friend who used to work for Ford but left and opened his own shop due to some of the unscrupulous activities of many dealerships. If it wasn't for his help and expertise with Fords, I might not have ever found some of the issues.
I finally smoke tested the system myself and found some leaks on top of the fuel tank. Dropped the tank and repaired two leaks with Plastiweld. Tried to find a new tank, but they are nonexistent and no one makes one to replace the OEM tank. New fuel pump and filter as well as charcoal canister and solenoid. Didn't solve a misfire the truck had developed so I began trying to track down the misfire. Pulled all the coils and found two coils that were submersed in antifreeze and the boots had come apart. Replaced them all with OEM Motorcraft coils. Found the leak at the rear of the intake manifold where the manifold mates to the heads. Pulled the intake and found modified intake gaskets where the dealer (Bud Shell Ford in Dexter, MO) had used the incorrect gaskets and filed off an alignment pin but didn't get it completely flat. It was creating an opening where a small amount of antifreeze was leaking out and dripping into the spark plug cavities. It wasn't getting in the oil or in the intake, but it flooded the plugs and deteriorated the coil boots enough to cause a misfire. As of now, I have a fixed EVAP system and a good running truck. Took forever to track everything down, but it's finally running good and not throwing any codes. It's still getting around 13 to 14 mpg on the highway and I'd like to see that improve, so I'm going to have it tuned and put a dual electric fan on it and hope for 15 or 16 mpg. Just put a new set of Nitto Ridge Grapplers 33x12.5x17 on it and it's finally reminiscent of what it was before it went down and started having all the problems. Took it to the woods this week and it performed great with no hiccups and no need to even use 4 wheel drive. Can't wait to start making a few mods and getting the performance where I want it.
One thing I've learned through all this, is that the dealers aren't anything to brag about. Technicians aren't mechanics and trying to get them to find problems without just throwing money away is an adventure in futility. A good shade tree mechanic who is honest and ethical beats a dealership any day of the week.

 

[MesaGuy]

So glad you got to code-free. Vacuum leaks are the worst. Your dealer-created coolant gasket leak into a few plug/coil wells, that's troubling. About the only silver lining I can find in that is that you ended up with Motorcraft coils installed. My experience with after-market coils has not been good. (I have had many work in the beginning, and go for about 10-15K, and then flake out.) I used to just keep a box in the truck until I got sick of it. I switched back to all Motorcraft on coils, with Motorcraft plugs as well. (I have no problem with aftermarket parts, just not on coils and plugs after hard learned lessons. Same on my Nissan, its not just Ford. The computers are tuned with the originals, and they only have a small margin.)

The Vacuum leak on the plastic fuel tanks. Mine is really old, and has the plastic tanks ('99 4x4) as well. I will have to put that on the list to pull down and out, and inspect. (and probably replace the fuel pump/tank filters while I am at it. I suppose the pump also maybe (its more expensive, but the effort to pull the tanks makes that the time to do it and the charcoal canistor). And do the fuel filter again. (I have done that several times before, its probably due again. That's on the fuel line driver's side on the 4x4, near the step rails.

So glad you got your going full strength, even if this motor does seem to have the magic mileage. You do have the 3.73 (high axle ratio) that allowed for somewhat better mileage. The 17-18mpg (was the absolute high end for the vehicle). You must have had very happy plugs, coils, MAF, and O2 sensors with just perfect injectors, and well as above-average low-running resistance on crankshaft bearings, and camshaft bearings. The new motor's got new everything now. (MAF, O2, plugs and coils). Though I would ask, did you check the gap on the plugs before you installed them? Because all the Motorcraft plugs I have ever gotten have been mis-gapped in the box (or at least not set how the Expy spec's them)?
And on your new engine, you have new bearings on crank and camshafts. So alignment just might not be as good as the old one was. 'cause at 17-18, that was as good as gets, so your original was one of the best. Even with 3.73 axle ratio, and standard or slightly larger tires. (which increases MPG, but lowers torque.)

Hope your tuning goes better than the code-squash did.

 

[Hoseman]

So glad you got to code-free. Vacuum leaks are the worst. Your dealer-created coolant gasket leak into a few plug/coil wells, that's troubling. About the only silver lining I can find in that is that you ended up with Motorcraft coils installed. My experience with after-market coils has not been good. (I have had many work in the beginning, and go for about 10-15K, and then flake out.) I used to just keep a box in the truck until I got sick of it. I switched back to all Motorcraft on coils, with Motorcraft plugs as well. (I have no problem with aftermarket parts, just not on coils and plugs after hard learned lessons. Same on my Nissan, its not just Ford. The computers are tuned with the originals, and they only have a small margin.)

The Vacuum leak on the plastic fuel tanks. Mine is really old, and has the plastic tanks ('99 4x4) as well. I will have to put that on the list to pull down and out, and inspect. (and probably replace the fuel pump/tank filters while I am at it. I suppose the pump also maybe (its more expensive, but the effort to pull the tanks makes that the time to do it and the charcoal canistor). And do the fuel filter again. (I have done that several times before, its probably due again. That's on the fuel line driver's side on the 4x4, near the step rails.

So glad you got your going full strength, even if this motor does seem to have the magic mileage. You do have the 3.73 (high axle ratio) that allowed for somewhat better mileage. The 17-18mpg (was the absolute high end for the vehicle). You must have had very happy plugs, coils, MAF, and O2 sensors with just perfect injectors, and well as above-average low-running resistance on crankshaft bearings, and camshaft bearings. The new motor's got new everything now. (MAF, O2, plugs and coils). Though I would ask, did you check the gap on the plugs before you installed them? Because all the Motorcraft plugs I have ever gotten have been mis-gapped in the box (or at least not set how the Expy spec's them)?
And on your new engine, you have new bearings on crank and camshafts. So alignment just might not be as good as the old one was. 'cause at 17-18, that was as good as gets, so your original was one of the best. Even with 3.73 axle ratio, and standard or slightly larger tires. (which increases MPG, but lowers torque.)

Hope your tuning goes better than the code-squash did.

i did gap the plugs when I installed the new coils. The dealer mentioned above installed Motorcraft plugs when they put the new motor in so I figured when I had the coils out I'd check them due to all the problems I've encountered with the work done by the dealer. They were actually correctly gapped, which is a huge surprise considering!!

I wouldn't trade the 3.73's for anything!! Except maybe some 4.10's for the woods and rocks. But I'm not willing to give up the mpg on a daily driver. I'm hoping an electric fan will help some since I'll be removing almost 25lbs of rotating weight when that behemoth of a fan clutch goes away!!