2005 shudders low rpm under load

[mrcarlson]

My 2005 Eddie Bauer- 99,000 While in o/d low rpm at aprox 40-50mph and upon encountering a hill the motor vheicle will shudder and like it misses. #2 coil was found to be bad- and the mechanic replaced an ecm or fuel module. Now it seems the engine and power is sluggish totally different power curve-

i go it back and with the different power curve or sluggish ness and again it is still doing the stutter or miss at low rpm when starting to use its power at low rpm

 

[smoedog]

My truck (05 king ranch, 125k) is doing the same thing.

It was flooded last year (about 1 inch in the passenger compartment). They replaced both cats and 6 plugs and coils. I fought with them to just replace the last 2 but they wouldn't since they weren't getting codes for them.

Everything I have read is coil packs. Frustrating part is its not throwing a CEL so i got no ammo to go back to my insurance company and have them fix it.

 

[sgtowing]

I would say replace all the cops.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kid's HD]

whats the code ur getting my 03 started doing this , the code i have is 9204

 

[Boise137]

My 2005 Eddie Bauer- 99,000 While in o/d low rpm at aprox 40-50mph and upon encountering a hill the motor vheicle will shudder and like it misses. #2 coil was found to be bad- and the mechanic replaced an ecm or fuel module. Now it seems the engine and power is sluggish totally different power curve-

i go it back and with the different power curve or sluggish ness and again it is still doing the stutter or miss at low rpm when starting to use its power at low rpm

Replace the coil on plugs. You van test them all you want with ohm meters etc. just replace and be done with it. I fought with mine for over a year. I found some on eBay for a pretty good price.

 

[Eye_Traveler]

Same exact problem with my 06. Have replaced the coil packs on the couple of cylinders that have thrown codes. Haven't seen a difference. Spent a little time with the service manager today and walked back through the symptoms. He felt sure of the problem- torque converter. Claims has been down this road with numerous other fords- no codes to identify the issue, coilpacks being replaced with no impact. Transmission is the real cause of the stutter. I am taking mine in this upcoming week- covered under extended service contract... Worth $50 to know for sure. I will let you know how it goes.

 

[cheapdad00]

Same exact problem with my 06. Have replaced the coil packs on the couple of cylinders that have thrown codes. Haven't seen a difference. Spent a little time with the service manager today and walked back through the symptoms. He felt sure of the problem- torque converter. Claims has been down this road with numerous other fords- no codes to identify the issue, coilpacks being replaced with no impact. Transmission is the real cause of the stutter. I am taking mine in this upcoming week- covered under extended service contract... Worth $50 to know for sure. I will let you know how it goes.

Did the dealer diagnose the problem? Was it transmission related? What was the fix? My 2005 (120K miles) is having similar symptoms - shudder at the same speeds ( 40-50) when in OD, especially noticeable on hills at that speed. When I take foot off the accelerator to force a downshift, it moves to a higher gear. The problem just started within the last month.

 

[Eye_Traveler]

Problem is now solved and was not the torque converter as speculated. 2 additional cops were found to be bad and went ahead and replaced all spark plugs to be done with it. Have not had a problem since. Runs like she's brand new. None of the diagnostic checks or codes suggested all plugs were bad, but at 100k went ahead and replaced any way.....

 

[cheapdad00]

Problem is now solved and was not the torque converter as speculated. 2 additional cops were found to be bad and went ahead and replaced all spark plugs to be done with it. Have not had a problem since. Runs like she's brand new. None of the diagnostic checks or codes suggested all plugs were bad, but at 100k went ahead and replaced any way.....

Thanks, I had replaced plugs ~ year ago, didn't due COPS at the same time. Just went and replaced my COPS today and so far the problem is better. It took a few cycles after the COPS were changed to run all the codes out of the system. First cylinders 1 and 6 were throwing codes, then cylinders 4 and 8, finally got it down to just cylinder 8. Took off one of the new COPS and installed the newest of the old 8 (had to do a single COP replacement ~year ago) and all appears to be well. Haven't had a chance to run it through the trouble spots yet, but will tonight. The quick drive to basketball practice we got up to 55 and no trouble shifting from 45-55.

I think it was the COPS because as time progressed and the temperature dropped I was experiencing (prior to replacement) lag at higher speeds as well (after the transmission had already shifted into 4th).

I bought the COPS Jan 2012 from Global automotive on ebay. They sat in my garage(s) until now. [Life got in the way and no symptoms so hadn't had a chance to replace them until now] Apparently one of them didn't like the cylinder I installed it on (not sure if it was bad or just allergic to cylinder 8), but I would recommend ordering extras - I think they offer an 8 +2 package.

 

[cheapdad00]

Well, took truck out for a longer evaluation and I'm not convinced problem is fixed. In fact now I have a new vibration at idle and diminished power at lower RPMs. I'll check tomorrow to see if I caused a vacuum leak anywhere. All of the coils were removed again and reconnected to ensure all the connections were tight, and to fix all the of the codes it was throwing before. Currently no codes are being thrown.

 

[cheapdad00]

Been driving the truck around for the last couple of days and it is now worse off than before I started. I am continually getting P0304/P0308 and P0358 codes. Swapped known good COPs and codes still occur, truck rumbles very rough. Low RPMs at idle (around 500 instead of 700). Investigating if there are problems with the wiring harnesses next.

 

[01yellerCobra]

Are all the vacuum lines in good shape and connected?

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[cheapdad00]

Are all the vacuum lines in good shape and connected?

Misspelling brought to you by Tapatalk

Any idea where to start looking other than the obvious ones? I made sure all the ones I disconnected to get to the coils are reconnected. Just did a quick inspection of all the other visible vacuum hoses and did not see any issues. The one that goes from the brake booster around the back of the intake is old and frail but no ruptures/punctures or loose connections.

The only thing I found was this tiny line (circled in blue) which is not attached to anything. It is in front of the computer and maybe I disconnected it taking the computer off its holder to get to cylinders 3 and 4. There is one small line connected and one just floating, not hooked up to anything.

 

[cheapdad00]

Well, installed a brand new Accel coil on cylinder four and codes are gone. Old (new) coil was loose and the boot came off when I pulled the coil out, so chalk it up to installer error. Of course the shuddering and low idle conditions are still there. I'll give it a few more miles for the computer to relearn then into the shop it goes.

 

[ZombieSoldier]

i bought an 8+2 coil kit, and they are all failing... ****** me off. less than 1 year old and 10,000 miles... gonna order all new *gasp* Ford Motorcraft ones in the coming weeks.

 

[cheapdad00]

Been driving around for 3 days now - couple hundred miles - truck is still very rough, not making gear changes smoothly at all once I hit 40 MPH. FInally started throwing P0304 code again (which is the same cylinder whose coil I have tried literally 4 different coils in the last week+). Will be flushing transmission fluid tomorrow AM, but now it looks like cylinder 4 is having issues. May test the fuel injectors also - need to figure out how to do that.

 

[ZombieSoldier]

remove all injectors, and take a piece of papertowel. turn injectors upside down and gently tap them on the papertowel. if you have anything that comes out that is larger than the tip of a sharpened pencil, that is enough to cause a symptom of a misfire since the injector is likely clogged.

I was discussing this last night with a buddy of mine that builds high horsepower corvettes around the world, designs his own camshaft profiles that work FANTASTICALLY, and his own tunes. Going from the symptoms, he is leaning towards 3 things, and these he sees around the automotive world.

1. fuel pressure drop off, likely caused by a failing fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, clogged injectors, or clogged filter

2. flat spot on a camshaft lobe that is accentuated by the vvt system on our 3 valve 5.4's

3. cracked piston.



I am hoping for the items in number 1 personally for my expedition. He recommended that I go and get the fuel pressure read at various rpm's as it is driven, as well as a compression test to narrow the issue down.

 

[cheapdad00]

remove all injectors, and take a piece of papertowel. turn injectors upside down and gently tap them on the papertowel. if you have anything that comes out that is larger than the tip of a sharpened pencil, that is enough to cause a symptom of a misfire since the injector is likely clogged.

I was discussing this last night with a buddy of mine that builds high horsepower corvettes around the world, designs his own camshaft profiles that work FANTASTICALLY, and his own tunes. Going from the symptoms, he is leaning towards 3 things, and these he sees around the automotive world.

1. fuel pressure drop off, likely caused by a failing fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, clogged injectors, or clogged filter

2. flat spot on a camshaft lobe that is accentuated by the vvt system on our 3 valve 5.4's

3. cracked piston.



I am hoping for the items in number 1 personally for my expedition. He recommended that I go and get the fuel pressure read at various rpm's as it is driven, as well as a compression test to narrow the issue down.

Well replaced the fuel injector and spark plug on cylinder 4 and swapped coil 4 with coil 3. Still a misfire. Old fuel injector was not dirty at all - I guess seafoam in the tank works a bit.

Dropped it off at the dealer last night as I have no more time to mess with it. Just received a call back from the dealer, they need to replace plugs 4 and 8 and coils 4 and 8 and reprogram PCM - $550. I told them the plug in 4 is only a day old - they say it is fouled and platinum and can't be cleaned, etc.

I'm furious, but not sure what else I can do. So very frustrated. This experience is leading me to re-think my philosophy on non-OEM parts. I used to have no problems with them, now I'm not so sure.

 

[ZombieSoldier]

please let me know how that turns out for you. i am not sure i want to do a reprogramming of the ECU, especially for that price...

now check this. a highschool buddy of mine got back to me last night, he works at a large ford dealer right outside Philadelphia Pa as a tachnician. He told me a little secret. he said the V V T Cam phasers when they go bad, the little shear pin obviously shears. When this happens the one camshaft has a tendancy to skip 1 tooth, causing the timing to be off. When this happens it causes the effect that you and I are both experiencing. His recommendation, and what he has done on his own 05 F150 with the 5.4 3 valve. Replace the camshafts with a mild upgrade cam set, and a set of the livernois motorsports camphaser lockouts with a tuner. he said you loose a little power over stock with the lockouts, but the cams bring her back to life.

here is the lockout kit with tuner
Livernois Motorsports 4.6/5.4L Cam Phaser Lockout / SCT Tuner Mail Order Combo - Livernois Motorsports

 

[cheapdad00]

Got truck back last night, 2 coils and spark plugs replaced with OEM parts. Reprogrammed PCM. $570 in total - roughly equally split between parts and labor. Vehicle runs as it did before the problems started. As I said before, my faith in aftermarket parts is waning. Or maybe its just my faith in cheap ebay parts, as they didnt work for me. So the original coils lasted 120K miles, put in the ebay ones and some of them last less than a day (even though they were manufactured ~yr ago - just been sitting on the shelf in my garage). Also, one of the supplementary Accell coils I bought from Advance went bad as well. Will look for a sale on 6 motorcraft coils and keep them on hand (or just sell the vehicle now to get something more fuel efficient).