2018 Expedition Engine Knocking?

[bwhite8889]

80,000 miles on an Expedition we bought a few months ago.

Already had VCT work done to address startup knocking. This new knocking is worse than what I was hearing before the VCT. Already verified it’s not the wastegate actuator arm.

I always fill up with 87 octane but last night I added octane booster and it immediately quieted down. This morning the knocking came back. Is it because these engines need 91 octane and mine is still burning through the 87 even with the booster? Also bear in mind that the engine is still “re-learning” timing since the front end of it was off for the VCT work. Not sure if that’s part of the issue. See link below for before/after octane booster videos.

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[JExpedition07]

I have never seen a video access through iCloud like that on a forum lol, interesting. I dunno that does not sound good. I am leaning toward they screwed up something during the phaser job. I would take it back with this video.

 

[SyndicateZ]

Sounds horrible. They f'd something up for sure. I had somewhat of a similar sound as that the next morning after my phasers were replaced. I turned off the engine and restarted and sounded normal again and never sounded like it again. Almost like the timing chain or whatever became off track but corrected itself somehow by itself.

If there is one thing that I have learned about expeditions its that they make random weird noices and when you bring it up with Ford they say its a normal sound. I wont be surprised you bring that thing back to the dealer and they listen to that and they say its a normal sound and if there are no check engine lights they wont look into it.... good luck

 

[bwhite8889]

Well the fact that it stops with octane booster is reassuring. I also just learned that they recommend octane 91 on these engines. I’ve always used 87.

I just added about a quarter thank of 93 (the other 3/4 is 87) and so far so good.

If it doesn’t come back again I’m inclined to just write it off as a one off. Well, two off since it came back in the morning but I’m guessing that’s because the octane booster was working somewhat intermittently?

 

[SyndicateZ]

Well the fact that it stops with octane booster is reassuring. I also just learned that they recommend octane 91 on these engines. I’ve always used 87.

I just added about a quarter thank of 93 (the other 3/4 is 87) and so far so good.

If it doesn’t come back again I’m inclined to just write it off as a one off. Well, two off since it came back in the morning but I’m guessing that’s because the octane booster was working somewhat intermittently?

You shouldnt need to have to use 91 or 93 to make that sound go away. Per Ford, these vehicles were "designed" for 87 and if the engine sounds bad something's mechanically wrong

 

[JExpedition07]

The timing is stuck in advance if it can’t run good on 87. That motor is screwed up, take it in

 

[bwhite8889]

Appreciate the feedback. Taking it to Ford tomorrow and will provide an update on what I learn.

 

[SyndicateZ]

Appreciate the feedback. Taking it to Ford tomorrow and will provide an update on what I learn.

Dont accept the "thats normal engine noise" excuse also. Thry def screwed it up and will try to not take any blame.

 

[Soliyou]

Yeah, that rattle is from the timing gear. It sounds like not enough oil pressure going to the phasers or bad phaser. Check your oil level and head back to the dealer.

 

[2018ExpyPlatinum]

I can't even spell mechanic, but that isn't right. Sounds like a diesel. Tell them if that's "normal", go out and find ANY 3.5 on their lot and listen to it to compare.

 

[SyndicateZ]

I can't even spell mechanic, but that isn't right. Sounds like a diesel. Tell them if that's "normal", go out and find ANY 3.5 on their lot and listen to it to compare.

Chances are that other Expy will have some type of noiseand still try to say "see, they all make a noise"

 

[bwhite8889]

Issue couldn't be directly replicated at the dealership (go figure!) since it's somewhat intermittent. However, I was able to provide several videos and without taking it apart yet they believe it may be timing chain related. Either the chain itself or the tensioner. More to come as I get more information.

 

[R0cketMan]

If your expy is making that noise just after having the VCT work done, they likely screwed up the timing when putting it back together. That sound reminds me of an old motorcycle I had when I was young. I rebuilt the engine and it had a similar "tapping" sound but only 1 tap since it was a v-twin sohc. I found out that the timing chain was off by 1 tooth, advancing the cam timing and opening the intake valve much earlier than is safe so as the piston came up to TDC, it "tapped" the intake valve. That is piston-valve contact and is not good. Do not drive it, have it towed. Have them give you a new engine while your at it because they screwed up yours.

 

[SyndicateZ]

Any updates?

 

[bwhite8889]

Nothing so far. Although according to Rocketman I need to be asking for a new engine…

I’m going to call the dealer rep tomorrow if so don’t hear anything by then.

 

[SyndicateZ]

Meh, they will prolly just need to re- time the chain and or install new guides etc.

 

[bwhite8889]

That’s what I was thinking. I texted my rep and asked for pictures of the chain, tensioners, guides, pistons, and valves to verify that the diligence was done and no internal damage was found.

 

[bwhite8889]

Heard back from the dealer today. They took it apart and verified no damage to the timing chain or any of its components. What they did find was that one of the new VCT cam phasers was bad so they are replacing it again.

One possibility is that they used the old-style part number (starts with an ‘H’ instead of an ‘M’) because they have a surplus of them ever since the newer ‘M’ styles were released to fix this known issue in the eco-boost engines. Either that or the job was just botched.

Should have it back Wednesday or so and can post a video of how the engine sounds.

 

[Bmac1955]

I had my phasers replaced on my 2019 in 11/ 21 with 35k on it. They replaced it with the old style phasers. I have 40k on it now. Don't drive it alot although I have had oil changes at 5k mile intervals. I flood start upon first startup in the AM. I do have Ford Protect warranty. So I was pissed that the old style was installed. Getting the repair done I had took a video upon startup in the AM to show that there was a issue. They couldn't say it was normal. That was my concern replacing phasers with a known failure rate. That's (Job 1) for you. Glad you were taken properly care of.

 

[bwhite8889]

Picked it up today. Looking over the report it looks like they did in fact replace a tensioner as well as the left side VCTs again. Sound is gone so far.

Only other oddity, which may be attributable to my heightened sense of awareness after having the engine apart twice, is when the turbo kicks in now there is a sound that almost reminds me of a static white noise machine. I’m not making too much of it (yet) since it’s not unbearably loud but definitely something that wasn’t there before.