2019 Major Issues within 10 months

[mmiller86]

Hi All - In Jan 2024 I bought a 2019 Expedition used with 60k miles. Right out the gate it had an interior water leak from a plugged drain hole in the sunroof and a failed A/C pump. Five months later, it needed the infamous cam phasers replaced (a cold start rattle still exists). At our last oil change, tech found an oil leak that needed to be plugged. Now just yesterday, the radiator hoses started leaking causing our engine to overheat while towing our small travel trailer stranding my wife and I at a campground for while a local dealer fixed it.

Are these issues all common for a 5 year old vehicle with 65k miles on it? Seems pretty ridiculous to have so many issues spring up within 10 months of ownership. Thinking about getting rid of it, am I being rash or reasonable?

 

[GixxerJasen]

Hi All - In Jan 2024 I bought a 2019 Expedition used with 60k miles. Right out the gate it had an interior water leak from a plugged drain hole in the sunroof and a failed A/C pump. Five months later, it needed the infamous cam phasers replaced (a cold start rattle still exists). At our last oil change, tech found an oil leak that needed to be plugged. Now just yesterday, the radiator hoses started leaking causing our engine to overheat while towing our small travel trailer stranding my wife and I at a campground for while a local dealer fixed it.

Are these issues all common for a 5 year old vehicle with 65k miles on it? Seems pretty ridiculous to have so many issues spring up within 10 months of ownership. Thinking about getting rid of it, am I being rash or reasonable?

Some yes. Plugged vent could happen anytime. Cam Phaser is definitely expected. IIRC the radiator hoses have to be removed for the Cam Phaser replacement and some folks have had them end up damaged or not reinstalled correctly, so that's possibly to be expected. A/C pump doesn't seem too common.

Hate to say it though, hope you have an extended warranty because you also could possibly be due for major transmission service. Ask me how I know.

Good news is that you should have gotten the revised cam phaser part, which seems to me like it fixes the issue because there's been less complaints of this as of late. The Transmission has a new revised CDF drum, but we still don't know if it fixes it's issues.

The biggest thing most people are facing, is what would you replace it with that's more reliable? You've already put the money in to fix a few common issues, you could just replace it with something else that needs a bunch of stuff fixed too.

 

[BigOleFordFan]

Not really rash, or common, but definitely frustrating for sure...

Alot of what happens or doesn't happen @60k+ miles depends on how well or how badly the previous owner maintained the vehicle and/or how well the factory did things when it was assembled.... the hoses were probably OEM & should have been replaced anyways, & the cam phasers are a well known issue...

For example:

I bought my relatively clean & good looking 011 EL in 2022 with 67K, and for almost 2 years was problem free

Then in Dec 23, it seemed like all hell broke loose....

1st to go was the battery (OEM) sucked but understandable, then 1 relay, then a 2nd, 3rd & 4th went poopoo...causing all sorts of issues. Not really a maintenance issue, but still frustrating since it took 5 trips to 3 different stealerships & $3k worth of diagnostics & parts & 4 months of on & off downtime to get fixed...

Then the Air Ride sensor & pump failed too, again not a maintenance thing, but expensive & took 2 weeks to get fixed (had to wait on parts direct from Ford)...

But since then, nottaproblemo.....fingers crossed

 

[mmiller86]

Some yes. Plugged vent could happen anytime. Cam Phaser is definitely expected. IIRC the radiator hoses have to be removed for the Cam Phaser replacement and some folks have had them end up damaged or not reinstalled correctly, so that's possibly to be expected. A/C pump doesn't seem too common.

Hate to say it though, hope you have an extended warranty because you also could possibly be due for major transmission service. Ask me how I know.

Good news is that you should have gotten the revised cam phaser part, which seems to me like it fixes the issue because there's been less complaints of this as of late. The Transmission has a new revised CDF drum, but we still don't know if it fixes it's issues.

The biggest thing most people are facing, is what would you replace it with that's more reliable? You've already put the money in to fix a few common issues, you could just replace it with something else that needs a bunch of stuff fixed too.

Thanks for the insight. Thankfully I did purchase an extended warranty and has covered everything so far except the sunroof leak. I agree that finding something more reliable that meets our needs in as a family car + tow vehicle is difficult.

 

[mmiller86]

Not really rash, or common, but definitely frustrating for sure...

Alot of what happens or doesn't happen @60k+ miles depends on how well or how badly the previous owner maintained the vehicle and/or how well the factory did things when it was assembled.... the hoses were probably OEM & should have been replaced anyways, & the cam phasers are a well known issue...

For example:

I bought my relatively clean & good looking 011 EL in 2022 with 67K, and for almost 2 years was problem free

Then in Dec 23, it seemed like all hell broke loose....

1st to go was the battery (OEM) sucked but understandable, then 1 relay, then a 2nd, 3rd & 4th went poopoo...causing all sorts of issues. Not really a maintenance issue, but still frustrating since it took 5 trips to 3 different stealerships & $3k worth of diagnostics & parts & 4 months of on & off downtime to get fixed...

Then the Air Ride sensor & pump failed too, again not a maintenance thing, but expensive & took 2 weeks to get fixed (had to wait on parts direct from Ford)...

But since then, nottaproblemo.....fingers crossed

Surfing the forum I definitely see all the issues people are wrestling with and now experiencing some of them in a relatively short period of time makes me question the quality of Ford vehicles in general. Are the vehicle parts’ quality so poor that it is expected that they fall apart in 3-5 years? In contrast I have a 2013 VW Passat and racked up 170k miles and only have a vacuum pump go out the entire time I’ve had it. Anyways, I’m a little jaded but venting helps! Thanks.

 

[JasonH]

Are the vehicle parts’ quality so poor that it is expected that they fall apart in 3-5 years?

The problem is that many people visit the forums when they have issues, so it can present a skewed perspective of vehicle reliability. Having said that, certain Ford vehicles for known for specific issues that are very widespread. The 4th gen Expedition has cam phaser and 10-speed transmission issues. The 3rd gen has issues with timing chain wear and warped turbo manifolds. Those seem to be the two most common complaints for each generation. Unfortunately they're also very expensive to address.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

Surfing the forum I definitely see all the issues people are wrestling with and now experiencing some of them in a relatively short period of time makes me question the quality of Ford vehicles in general. Are the vehicle parts’ quality so poor that it is expected that they fall apart in 3-5 years? In contrast I have a 2013 VW Passat and racked up 170k miles and only have a vacuum pump go out the entire time I’ve had it. Anyways, I’m a little jaded but venting helps! Thanks.

Another way to gauge Ford’s quality (or lack of quality) is to review their safety recalls.

For several years now, Ford has led the auto industry with the highest number of safety recalls AND the highest number of vehicles recalled. This is a sign of poor quality and systemic failures in engineering, design and manufacturing.

Another issue is that Ford’s CEO has acknowledged publicly that their vehicle warranty costs are out-of-control and excessive, and his primary focus will be to reduce warranty costs (which are costs to repair defects). That is also not a good sign.

 

[BigOleFordFan]

Another way to gauge Ford’s quality (or lack of quality) is to review their safety recalls.

For several years now, Ford has led the auto industry with the highest number of safety recalls AND the highest number of vehicles recalled. This is a sign of poor quality and systemic failures in engineering, design and manufacturing.

Another issue is that Ford’s CEO has acknowledged publicly that their vehicle warranty costs are out-of-control and excessive, and his primary focus will be to reduce warranty costs (which are costs to repair defects). That is also not a good sign.

I have seen these trends also, so IMHO, it's time for some heads to roll, starting with the execs in charge of engineering, design and manufacturing processes, as they have clearly failed in their jobs, which also means that most likely, several people that report to said execs have also failed due to low/no expectations of quality performance of their duties....

String 'em up I say, get the lead out, take out the trash, and move forward with some folks who are committed to fixing the problems asap !

 

[Jettix2]

Another way to gauge Ford’s quality (or lack of quality) is to review their safety recalls.

For several years now, Ford has led the auto industry with the highest number of safety recalls AND the highest number of vehicles recalled. This is a sign of poor quality and systemic failures in engineering, design and manufacturing.

Another issue is that Ford’s CEO has acknowledged publicly that their vehicle warranty costs are out-of-control and excessive, and his primary focus will be to reduce warranty costs (which are costs to repair defects). That is also not a good sign.

The quality is atrocious with a lot of manufacturers right now. Ford is bad, but there's others that aren't far behind. My 2019 has had extensive repairs, and is currently waiting on a factory crate replacement transmission......seems like cam phasers are on the way out, but they can't diagnose until the new trans is installed. As soon as I can get my trans repaired, I'm selling it......

 

[Rob6805]

The quality is atrocious with a lot of manufacturers right now. Ford is bad, but there's others that aren't far behind. My 2019 has had extensive repairs, and is currently waiting on a factory crate replacement transmission......seems like cam phasers are on the way out, but they can't diagnose until the new trans is installed. As soon as I can get my trans repaired, I'm selling it......

Agree with this. Automotive quality has taken a hit over the past ~5 - 7 years. Especially Ford. I have a 2010 F150 that I bought new. It has 125k miles on it with zero issues.

 

[bobward757]

Mmiller….
Hey bro, Office said three of those are common for the expedition.

The extended warranty was the best thing you did.

The biggest take away is that there is nothing else comparable in the market that does the same mission with the same reliability and comfort, even with all of its problems inherent from Ford.

For that being said your best insurance going forward is being religious about 5000 mile oil changes, and 60,000 mile spark plug and driveline fluid changes. This vehicle like most depends on good clean fresh fluid and that is your best insurance going forward.

Enjoy the vehicle it truly is phenomenal and very enjoyable.

 

[Wayne Decker]

I bought my 2019 new and now have 80,000 miles on it. The only repairs I've had are a blown speaker within the first few weeks, and a leaking rear A/C in the rear this year. It did recently get the rattle on start up, but my understanding is that may be annoying, but not fatal. If that's true, I'll just live with it.

 

[Grizguy]

I run my 19 expy MAX hard. Over 100,000 miles. Not sure exact.. Maybe 106? Always 10 plus miles over posted. ALWAYS loaded with a few hundred pounds of tools. Sometimes plywood or other lumber or building supplies. I did the phaser recall. Do oil changes normal maintenance.. no issues. Don't pull a trailer much. I don't like the 9 MPG . I am happy with the normal 19 MPG. I have other fords to pull my trailers.

 

[wpaul]

Mmiller….
Hey bro, Office said three of those are common for the expedition.

The extended warranty was the best thing you did.

The biggest take away is that there is nothing else comparable in the market that does the same mission with the same reliability and comfort, even with all of its problems inherent from Ford.

For that being said your best insurance going forward is being religious about 5000 mile oil changes, and 60,000 mile spark plug and driveline fluid changes. This vehicle like most depends on good clean fresh fluid and that is your best insurance going forward.

Enjoy the vehicle it truly is phenomenal and very enjoyable.

Hello @bobward757, where are you getting the 60,000 mile interval for a driveline fluid changes, and by driveline what component are you referring to differentials, transfer case and or transmission or all of them?

 

[JONWIC]

Hi All - In Jan 2024 I bought a 2019 Expedition used with 60k miles. Right out the gate it had an interior water leak from a plugged drain hole in the sunroof and a failed A/C pump. Five months later, it needed the infamous cam phasers replaced (a cold start rattle still exists). At our last oil change, tech found an oil leak that needed to be plugged. Now just yesterday, the radiator hoses started leaking causing our engine to overheat while towing our small travel trailer stranding my wife and I at a campground for while a local dealer fixed it.

Are these issues all common for a 5 year old vehicle with 65k miles on it? Seems pretty ridiculous to have so many issues spring up within 10 months of ownership. Thinking about getting rid of it, am I being rash or reasonable?

Be ready for transmission issues as well.

 

[aksarben]

Agree with this. Automotive quality has taken a hit over the past ~5 - 7 years. Especially Ford. I have a 2010 F150 that I bought new. It has 125k miles on it with zero issues.

So Rob,

How is your 2021 treating you? I just bought the same vehicle, my first Ford, with less than 7K miles on it. Since it was sold new in Jan 2022 I have about 1 month of factory warranty left, however I did purchase a 100k 8 year ESP. I sure as hell hate to think I will have tranny problems, but I am committed to the vehicle for now. I just hope I am not halfway across the country and have tranny issues....

 

[ccssid]

So Rob,

How is your 2021 treating you? I just bought the same vehicle, my first Ford, with less than 7K miles on it. Since it was sold new on Jan 2022 I have about 1 month of factory warranty left, however I did purchase a 100k 8 year ESP. I sure as hell hate to think I will have tranny problems, but I am committed to the vehicle for now. I just hope I am not halfway across the country and have tranny issues....

Bought my 2021 a year ago. 16500 miles and a CPO rear cv axle. Boot failed....repaired under warranty. A/c issues.... repaired under warranty. 20,000 miles later, Drives great. ALL fluids have been changed except trans ( will be done within the next couple thousand miles). Oil changes every 4-5000 miles . Purchased 125,000 ESP. I am not particularly concerned about cam phasers or trans issues at this time.

 

[Rob6805]

So Rob,

How is your 2021 treating you? I just bought the same vehicle, my first Ford, with less than 7K miles on it. Since it was sold new in Jan 2022 I have about 1 month of factory warranty left, however I did purchase a 100k 8 year ESP. I sure as hell hate to think I will have tranny problems, but I am committed to the vehicle for now. I just hope I am not halfway across the country and have tranny issues....

It just turned 26k miles. Issues to date:
-sunroof rattle since day one that will not go away. Had the dealer look at it and I also preformed the TSB to clean and grease the seals. Still rattles...

- front driveshaft CV joint leaking. It was noticed during an oil change at the dealer.

- battery replaced (warranty covered it)

I consider myself lucky that this is all so far. Regarding the trans.. at some point it will go. There is no avoiding it as the 21s have the faulty CDF drum.
The sunroof rattle drives me nuts!! I'm going to clean the seals and try the krotox grease again this weekend.

 

[Mr Big]

To the OP:
It's not really a short period of time, because the 60,000 before you have passed and you don't know how it was treated.
Also, with any used vehicle, even certified pr-owned, it's a crap shoot, because we don't know who owned the vehicle and how it was taken care of.
I tend to baby my vehicles, keep them well maintained and clean. I had a 2000 Excursion for 21 years. It looked new inside and out and was mechanically perfect when I sold it. And when I purchase used, they immediately go to a mechanic for a complete inspection, any needed belts and hoses, and all fluids changed. This way I know I'm starting from a pretty good point.

 

[aksarben]

It just turned 26k miles. Issues to date:
-sunroof rattle since day one that will not go away. Had the dealer look at it and I also preformed the TSB to clean and grease the seals. Still rattles...

- front driveshaft CV joint leaking. It was noticed during an oil change at the dealer.

- battery replaced (warranty covered it)

I consider myself lucky that this is all so far. Regarding the trans.. at some point it will go. There is no avoiding it as the 21s have the faulty CDF drum.
The sunroof rattle drives me nuts!! I'm going to clean the seals and try the krotox grease again this weekend.

I have a late November 2021 build date, so, maybe I will get lucky and they were using a different CDF drum by then. Fingers crossed.