2019 Not starting pulling lots of amps ? HELP !!

[65Rustang]

I Have a 2019 XLT that has been great since new. The other day It wouldn't start at the dog park. I walked home got the
wife and jump started it... Got home and it did it again, Flashing lights clicking and no start.
So I went and got a new battery.. It started right up.
Drove it on a test drive and was great. That night I locked it with the remote and it died over night.
I got in with the key but no start, I even tried the hidden key thing.

I just checked the starter with a remote switch and it turned over fine.
I have left the battery disconnected many times. Hoping it would reset, But nothing.
The connection on the negative side after the (battery watch box?) was loose and sparking.. So I tightened it up.

Now when I connect the battery there is clicking about 2 per second right under the fuse box.
for about 30 min Pulling 7 amps... 9 if the alarm is going off.. I pulled the horn fuse so its just the lights.
After 30 min it will go down to 5 amps,
Clicking will slow, at about 1 hour
Now its 2 hours in and it is still pulling about 3 amps. The clicking has stopped
Remote start won't work. (But The alarm button works sometimes)
Somehow I deleted it from ford pass..Ugg.
And to add insult to injury when I was messing with it I engaged the electric parking break.
I have it on a 15 amp charger Maintainer.

By the way this is my 3rd Expedition.. Had an 2006, a 2011, and now the 2019

Thanks for any help you guys can offer!!

 

[Fizzy]

You have a short somewhere or in something. Maybe a rodent chewed some wires. Maybe a component went bad and is now heating up and draining your battery.

Put a multimeter on the battery (sounds like you do already), then pull (and replace) each fuse one by one until you see the power draw go away. That's your broken circuit. From there you can see what that fuse protects, and continue troubleshooting that.

I think there's more than one fuse box in the Expedition, so make sure you get them all.

 

[Mr Big]

Charge up the battery and perform a Battery Management System (BMS) reset. Put the vehicle in accessory mode (push start without holding the brake), then flash the high beams five times, and finally, press the brake pedal three times. A flashing battery icon on the dash indicates the BMS reset is complete.
If that does not help, take it to an Advance Auto Parts or similar store and have them test it, it's usually free.
My Excursion did the same thing and it was also misfiring and had loss of power, even after getting a new battery.
It turned out to be a bad alternator. They have these diodes in them that can send false readings and cause a lot of confusion.
This may be the problem. Keep us posted.

 

[65Rustang]

Thank you Fizzy I will try that. I pulled some of them when it was acting better, and it seamed that the 50 PCM ones took away a lot of the draw, and slowed the clicking under the box.
I figured that was just stuff in the background that stays on all the time.

Mr. Big Thank you as well! I reset the BMS after I changed the battery out. So the computer supposedly knows its new.
I can't take it anywhere because its stuck in the driveway. At least its at home.
I was wondering about the alternator, but it hasn't shown any signs before this.

I do have a flatbed trailer, But I don't know if I can get the parking brake off, and will it steer without any electricity?

I couldn't get anything to work so I did a ( Hard Reset ) touched the negative and positive cables together.. (No Battery!)
I'm concerned that the computer isn't recognizing the keys anymore. I saw a guy on you tube that said don't do this if you have chip keys
We basically have only chip remote keys, so I'm wondering if I screwed up!

 

[65Rustang]

Its been sitting for about 6 hours and still pulling 2.3 amps.

I pulled all the fuses one by one and have 2 that reduced the draw
#83 15a Transmission Control Module power...... Took it down to 1.8amps
#52 50a Body control module(BCM) voltage quality module (VQM) ... took it down to 1.8 amps
With both removed it was at .6 amps

The alarm went off when I got in the car to get the owners manual, so now its back up to 6 amps and lights are flashing,
so I don't think I can test the inside fuses. Maybe tomorrow if I leave the doors open and latched like its locked up.. Maybe I can tape over the motion sensors inside the car?

 

[DieselMonk]

Still too much amps. When in sleep it should draw 50mA not 600mA.

With a 2 channel oscilloscope, look at the CAN bus high and low see what makes the car not go to sleep. You may disconnect modules, not just the fuses.

 

[65Rustang]

Thank you DieselMonk Can you suggest a brand of oscilloscope to get? I looked them up on eBay but who knows what you're getting on there.

This morning I tried to do a video for you guys but I can't get it uploaded here.

 

[Mr Big]

Thank you DieselMonk Can you suggest a brand of oscilloscope to get? I looked them up on eBay but who knows what you're getting on there.

This morning I tried to do a video for you guys but I can't get it uploaded here.

Check Amazon. At least there you can return it if you don't like it.

 

[65Rustang]

IMG_4213.MOV I'm not sure if this will work but here is a link to the video from this morning. IMG_4213.MOV

 

[Fizzy]

There’s 2 fuse boxes. Engine compartment. Passenger compartment. Have you gone through the fuses in the passenger compartment?

Also, under the cupholder rubber mat there’s a key slot used for programming the keys. Also, there’s a way you can touch the key to the remote start button or something to get it to recognize it when its battery is flat. Might be worth reading up about.

Running around today so can’t look those things up for you this time. Good luck!

 

[sandbuster]

Couple a things here 65R.. someone mentioned checking your wiring circuits (typically under your hood) for rodent damage - DO THIS as it is sadly a very common occurrence these days. Also, I have a 2017 model that the positive battery connector was so rotted out it came apart in my hands - easy fix (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09GLVT5H2?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_11&th=1). Even if this is not and issue this would be a good replacement when needed. Electrical faults can often be exasperating to figure out but you got a lot of good advice from those on this forum. Let us know when you figure this out so you can help the next guy who has same issue!

 

[DieselMonk]

Thank you DieselMonk Can you suggest a brand of oscilloscope to get? I looked them up on eBay but who knows what you're getting on there.

This morning I tried to do a video for you guys but I can't get it uploaded here.

It doesn’t need to be a crazy fancy automotive oscilloscope, just a plain one and minimum 2 channels.
Look at the data stream and start disconnecting modules one by one while observing the data stream and the current draw.

On the beginning you had 50 - 60mA which is what you want. Weird thing is that the hazards are flashing by itself? Does the car think it’s stolen somehow or insufficient available current to draw? Flat battery, or bad positive or ground wire corroded?
I wonder if the booster cables were hooked up backwards? That would suck balls.

There is at least one module that keeps everything else alive. Try scanning the car on the OBD2 port see what happens there? Codes?

 

[65Rustang]

It was raining all day so I didn't get much done.

Fizzy I tried the key on the button thing but it didn't work.
I'm not sure I want to program the keys, It might be the only thing left that works.
That said I plan to call a mobile locksmith on Monday to see if they can do anything.
The car only had 1 key when we bought it so Brandon Ford called a mobile locksmith to make me a new key ( the service center was closed)

DieselMonk I will check out the Oscilloscopes... First I have to get it to respond at all.
I think the car might be in theft mode, And it might have lost the connection to the keys... I removed the fuse for the horn as to not bug the neighbors+ That thing is extremely loud.
I did a hard reset.. Touching the battery cables together, Then saw online not to do that if you have chip keys... I think remote keys qualify as chip keys. Ugg
The battery is new, The old battery was strong enough to shut the car down at stoplights, So now I have 2 good battery's
I checked the connections... My older 2011 had similar problems not wanting to start electrical issues, and turning on the 4x4 when driving at about 35mps.
It got stuck in the garage I worked on it for days, Even replaced the PCM and got new keys... Went back to the basics, and found that the battery connections were corroded, Very expensive mistake.
The Ford dealer offered me $500 bucks for it.... I traded it in 4 years later for about $9000 Glad I didn't Have him tow it out of the garage!!.
I tried to test the OBD but my scanner needs the ignition turned on... I have the connections for forscan, but I haven't had a subscription for years... Do you think I can get access with that if the ignition won't do anything?

Sandbuster and Fizzy I think you might be on to something. I found this damage close to the cowl... I think they still call it that, in front of the windshield where the air comes into the cabin.


I'm pretty sure those are teeth marks, and the flap over the drain at the top of the picture is missing.
We had problems with rodents at work, But I retired 3 years ago... I hope one isn't living in there, Sometimes I park it in the garage.
I need to borrow my daughters cat.

 

[DieselMonk]

Aah! So the car thinks it is stolen somehow with the hazards on and the horn going. Yeah… the immobilzer keeps it from starting.
You have to fix this issue first. Hopefully then the current draw goes away too. If not you still need to disconnect strategically selected modules.

 

[65Rustang]

Is there a way to reset the immobilizer?
Can a locksmith do it? Or do I have to tow it to the dealership?

 

[Rob6805]

This is going to be a tough one to diagnose especially if you suspect rodent damage to wiring. A really good tech will have to use Ford's pin point tests to drill down using either DTCs or symptoms to find root cause.
If indeed rodent damage is found I wonder if insurance will cover?

 

[Mr Big]

Do you have access to Forscan? If so you could hook it up and see if there are stored error codes. That may help.
I got this from the Internet on how to reset the Anti-theft system. Hopefully this helps.
Standard Key & Ignition Reset
This method resets the system by putting it in a timed "learn" mode.
Insert the key: into the ignition.
Turn the key: to the "on" position, where the dashboard lights up but the engine doesn't start.
Wait for the security light: (the one that indicates the immobilizer is active) to stop blinking or turn off. This can take 10-15 minutes.
Turn the key to the "off" position: and then attempt to start the engine.
Battery Disconnect
A temporary power loss can sometimes reset the anti-theft system.
Locate the battery, usually under the hood.
Remove the negative battery cable: and wait for at least 15 minutes before reconnecting it.
Attempt to start the vehicle: after reattaching the cable securely.
Key Fob & Door Lock Reset
A malfunctioning key fob or a signal issue with the doors can trigger the anti-theft system.
Replace the battery: in your key fob if it's old or weak.
Use the key to lock and unlock: the driver's side door, holding the unlock position for 20-30 seconds.
Try using the remote: to lock and then unlock the vehicle.

 

[65Rustang]

I do have the cable and forscan loaded into my laptop... The only thing I used it for was to program in that I added the trailer brake booster to the car.

I'm getting to my wits end on this thing. I will contact Ford and a locksmith tomorrow, But the light at the end of the tunnel is getting dim..

Here is a question for you guy's how much is this going to cost me at a dealership? to have it towed and fixed?

I haven't taking anything to a shop since My EXP in 1987...

 

[65Rustang]

Here is what I got from Forscan
Lots of errors and warnings..

 

[DieselMonk]

U0140 and U0100 are loss of communication codes. So some modules are offline due to wiring or internal damage. The IMMO is not only one box, it verifies multiple things in different modules. Before you try to fix the immobilizer situation with the car thinking it’s being stolen, you have to fix the communication issue between the modules first. You have to find the broken wires and maybe even broken modules . Once the network is 100% fixed and back online, then you can deal with the rest of the issues. Having like 50 modules hidden in a car doesn’t help much, but this is what needs to happen.