3.0 and 3.5l performance upgrade

[5280tunage]

In response to:

https://fordauthority.com/2024/09/2021-2023-ford-f-150-3-5l-v6-ecoboost-performance-upgrade-revealed/

I realize the Expy isn't listed as a target model, but these are practically identical power plants. Any chance this would work for an Expy? I realize that a well done, custom aftermarket tune will be better at squeaking out more power, and allow you to customize things like throttle response, etc etc. But there's a few reasons why this is appealing.

1 - Maintains factory powertrain warranty. Aftermarket could "if provable, void the warranty."
2 - If anyone see what Cobb has been through lately, it's only a matter of time before any aftermarket tuner becomes the most wanted by the EPA and CARB. So for those of us with aftermarket tunes, what happens when they get shutdown?
3 - Sure seems to me that anyone with the right diagnostic system could duplicate this "tune". A before and after snapshot of the vehicles programming no?

$825 is quite a pretty penny to pay for something that's not customized to your build, but again, there are pros and cons to each.

 

[2020FordRaptor]

In response to:

https://fordauthority.com/2024/09/2021-2023-ford-f-150-3-5l-v6-ecoboost-performance-upgrade-revealed/

I realize the Expy isn't listed as a target model, but these are practically identical power plants. Any chance this would work for an Expy? I realize that a well done, custom aftermarket tune will be better at squeaking out more power, and allow you to customize things like throttle response, etc etc. But there's a few reasons why this is appealing.

1 - Maintains factory powertrain warranty. Aftermarket could "if provable, void the warranty."
2 - If anyone see what Cobb has been through lately, it's only a matter of time before any aftermarket tuner becomes the most wanted by the EPA and CARB. So for those of us with aftermarket tunes, what happens when they get shutdown?
3 - Sure seems to me that anyone with the right diagnostic system could duplicate this "tune". A before and after snapshot of the vehicles programming no?

$825 is quite a pretty penny to pay for something that's not customized to your build, but again, there are pros and cons to each.

No I it wouldn't work as the fine writing in the tuning could mess up the Expy's tuning.

1)I always have to repeat this to Bronco and Explorer ST owners. The warranty is only retained for the 3 year/36k warranty that starts at original new purchase of the vehicle. After that, it's considered an aftermarket part, and you seem like you pretty much know how warranty works after that with an aftermarket part.

2)Cobb isn't going anywhere. Huge topic on the Explorer ST forums. Let's say hypothetically, Cobb goes away, the tune you have currently will still work perfectly fine, just hope that you had all the revisions that you wanted. Also, if you have the tune before Cobb goes away and EPA goes after the company, they can't go after you, only obstacle for the user would be passing emissions.

The Ford Performance tunes are just expensive higher-end canned tunes, if that's what you want great, but for the same price other tuners are 100% better.

 

[5280tunage]

No I it wouldn't work as the fine writing in the tuning could mess up the Expy's tuning.

1)I always have to repeat this to Bronco and Explorer ST owners. The warranty is only retained for the 3 year/36k warranty that starts at original new purchase of the vehicle. After that, it's considered an aftermarket part, and you seem like you pretty much know how warranty works after that with an aftermarket part.

2)Cobb isn't going anywhere. Huge topic on the Explorer ST forums. Let's say hypothetically, Cobb goes away, the tune you have currently will still work perfectly fine, just hope that you had all the revisions that you wanted. Also, if you have the tune before Cobb goes away and EPA goes after the company, they can't go after you, only obstacle for the user would be passing emissions.

The Ford Performance tunes are just expensive higher-end canned tunes, if that's what you want great, but for the same price other tuners are 100% better.

So I feel like there are two different things being said here though. The actual tune comes with a 3/36k FPP warranty. Based on this article that warranty begins when the part is installed, but more importantly for me was the fact that it doesn't void the standard 5YR/60K powertrain warranty and in general, won't void a Ford ESP. To me that's bit of a benefit, and no, I didn't think Cobb was going away, but what they can do, what they can sell, and how the support what you've already bought will be hampered. And I can almost guarantee that's going to spread like wildfire, like the 5Stars, Livernois, etc.

Tune FPP - https://performanceparts.ford.com/warranty/include/pdf/Select_Parts_Warranty_Statement_2015.pdf

 

[LokiWolf]

So A LOT to unpack in this thread.

Yes, SO MANY better options. For those like the 23 F150 Ecoboost, this is a good option. Those can only be tuned with a PCM swap. But yes, they can that way. 24+ F150's are for all intent purposes untunable. Too many changes between 23 and 24 for a PCM swap to be a valid option. The PCM is years, if ever away from being cracked, and that is from the best in the business. Just like the 2025+ Explorers.

Pretty sure the 23 and 24 Expedition PCM's are like the 23 F150's. They can be swapped. The new 25's will NOT be tunable from 3rd party anytime soon. I mean years if ever.

This and Piggyback modules are going to become the only options for the foreseeable future. Not sure a Expedition will be my Wife's next vehicle, unless I pick up a 24 after the 25's are announced.

As far as the warranty, it is not in addition to the existing powertrain warranty. It replaces it. I do believe it is from the point of install, but there is some writing somewhere, that there are some limitations if your vehicle is above a certain mile. Can't find that currently.

You need some VERY specific hardware to duplicate the PCM at the level you are talking about, and it has to be done from a Bench not via the OBD. Plus depending on the year of the expedition, the PCM is not the same as the standard 150, it is the PCM from the Raptor...The Expedition has ALWAYS been a mix of modules and parts from the 150 and other Ford vehicles. Same challenges that plague us with FORSCAN.

I don't think there will ever be this for the Expedition. Right now they get people to spend what $5K to go to the HO motor, that is now nothing more than tuning. This is basically that.

If you have a early 4th Gen, and are close to being out of warranty, and want more juice, hit up Gearhead or ZFG, and get exactly what you want for the same price, custom for your vehicle and preferences.

 

[5280tunage]

So A LOT to unpack in this thread.

Yes, SO MANY better options. For those like the 23 F150 Ecoboost, this is a good option. Those can only be tuned with a PCM swap. But yes, they can that way. 24+ F150's are for all intent purposes untunable. Too many changes between 23 and 24 for a PCM swap to be a valid option. The PCM is years, if ever away from being cracked, and that is from the best in the business. Just like the 2025+ Explorers.

Pretty sure the 23 and 24 Expedition PCM's are like the 23 F150's. They can be swapped. The new 25's will NOT be tunable from 3rd party anytime soon. I mean years if ever.

This and Piggyback modules are going to become the only options for the foreseeable future. Not sure a Expedition will be my Wife's next vehicle, unless I pick up a 24 after the 25's are announced.

As far as the warranty, it is not in addition to the existing powertrain warranty. It replaces it. I do believe it is from the point of install, but there is some writing somewhere, that there are some limitations if your vehicle is above a certain mile. Can't find that currently.

You need some VERY specific hardware to duplicate the PCM at the level you are talking about, and it has to be done from a Bench not via the OBD. Plus depending on the year of the expedition, the PCM is not the same as the standard 150, it is the PCM from the Raptor...The Expedition has ALWAYS been a mix of modules and parts from the 150 and other Ford vehicles. Same challenges that plague us with FORSCAN.

I don't think there will ever be this for the Expedition. Right now they get people to spend what $5K to go to the HO motor, that is now nothing more than tuning. This is basically that.

If you have a early 4th Gen, and are close to being out of warranty, and want more juice, hit up Gearhead or ZFG, and get exactly what you want for the same price, custom for your vehicle and preferences.

As always, great insight. thanks @LokiWolf

 

[LokiWolf]

As always, great insight. thanks @LokiWolf

Thanks!

I have generally spoken badly about the FPP tunes, but they are fine, and for sure safe. I honestly believe for the near future with new Fords they might be a necessity if you want more.

The one for the 2020-2024 Explorer ST, is definitely an improvement over the regular OEM tuning. Biggest difference being the Trans tuning. I have driven 2 of them. In comparison to my ZFG tune, not even close. My E50 tune from ZFG was good for 3.7 0-60, everything else stock.

For somebody like me I would rather work with a respected tuner, and dial the vehicle in with adjustments. Get a tune for specifically what I want, Performance Street tune to daily, that keeps things within safe margins. Maybe a tow tune, to help with the crappy trans shifting from the factory, but only adds a little more juice in the middle of the power band.

These OEM's are locking these things down so they can get a piece of the aftermarket.

 

[2020FordRaptor]

So I feel like there are two different things being said here though. The actual tune comes with a 3/36k FPP warranty. Based on this article that warranty begins when the part is installed, but more importantly for me was the fact that it doesn't void the standard 5YR/60K powertrain warranty and in general, won't void a Ford ESP. To me that's bit of a benefit, and no, I didn't think Cobb was going away, but what they can do, what they can sell, and how the support what you've already bought will be hampered. And I can almost guarantee that's going to spread like wildfire, like the 5Stars, Livernois, etc.

Tune FPP - https://performanceparts.ford.com/warranty/include/pdf/Select_Parts_Warranty_Statement_2015.pdf

That’s all false as far as warranty. It’s been said time and time again, from FordPerformance when contacted, that it replaced any and all warranties with its own 3/36k mile warranty that begins at time of purchase. After that it’s considered an aftermarket part and has the possibility to void warranty. It most likely will not cause any problems but there always is that possibility.

 

[BlackBetty]

So A LOT to unpack in this thread.

Yes, SO MANY better options. For those like the 23 F150 Ecoboost, this is a good option. Those can only be tuned with a PCM swap. But yes, they can that way. 24+ F150's are for all intent purposes untunable. Too many changes between 23 and 24 for a PCM swap to be a valid option. The PCM is years, if ever away from being cracked, and that is from the best in the business. Just like the 2025+ Explorers.

Pretty sure the 23 and 24 Expedition PCM's are like the 23 F150's. They can be swapped. The new 25's will NOT be tunable from 3rd party anytime soon. I mean years if ever.

This and Piggyback modules are going to become the only options for the foreseeable future. Not sure a Expedition will be my Wife's next vehicle, unless I pick up a 24 after the 25's are announced.

As far as the warranty, it is not in addition to the existing powertrain warranty. It replaces it. I do believe it is from the point of install, but there is some writing somewhere, that there are some limitations if your vehicle is above a certain mile. Can't find that currently.

You need some VERY specific hardware to duplicate the PCM at the level you are talking about, and it has to be done from a Bench not via the OBD. Plus depending on the year of the expedition, the PCM is not the same as the standard 150, it is the PCM from the Raptor...The Expedition has ALWAYS been a mix of modules and parts from the 150 and other Ford vehicles. Same challenges that plague us with FORSCAN.

I don't think there will ever be this for the Expedition. Right now they get people to spend what $5K to go to the HO motor, that is now nothing more than tuning. This is basically that.

If you have a early 4th Gen, and are close to being out of warranty, and want more juice, hit up Gearhead or ZFG, and get exactly what you want for the same price, custom for your vehicle and preferences.

Yes… always hated how the Expedition was a mix of its own. Made it a bit of a job to find things made for the F150 that would fit my Expedition. Thinking like model year F150 stuff (engine/ drivetrain mods) would fit comparable Expedition years. This was not always the case.

Anything from intercoolers, down pipes, cold air intakes, Etc. But, when there’s a will there’s a way!!! Got all the aforementioned components installed and tuned (a few other goodies as well). Got it tuned to the “tune” of 385-390hp/ 603lbs/ft at the rear wheels. The CAI was not installed during the last tune. Shop edited the script to think it was installed; received/ installed the CAI a week later. Then, installed the SPD down pipes. Tuner said I’d see a slight gain, but he’d need to get it back on the dyno to maximize its efficiency.

All that said… yeah I had more power (those numbers for the Ford tune in that link are at the flywheel), but my warranty would’ve been out the window at a Ford dealer. Got a third-party extended warranty. Had no problems with it. When I say that I’m just saying whenever they did a diagnostic the re-write to the PCM never came up. Not to mention my issues were not power plant/ power train involved.

I know now with the new vehicle those mods I made are not worth the risk on my new vehicle. Definitely better (vehicle preservation-wise) to go with a vehicle manufacturer’s tune if you’re going to tune it.

 

[nmag07]

Since I just purchased my 2024 Timberline a couple of months ago, the warranty protection is the big sell for me. I haven't gone down the mod rabbit hole like I have with my other vehicles (the E63 AMG wagon scratches that itch plenty) and when we decide if it will be my wife's or my primary, that will likely be the tipping point.

That said, I will try and chat with Ford Performance (realizing the is likely no better than a fool's errand) and ask for cross compatibility with the Expedition models and report back.

 

[JasonH]

These OEM's are locking these things down so they can get a piece of the aftermarket.

They're getting crazy with it too. I am evaluating an Equinox EV to replace the Focus Electric I sold. Turns out GM killed CarPlay and Android auto in the Equinox and Blazer. They have Waze, Spotify and Google Maps built in the infotainment...but there will be a subscription charge to retain use of these services eventually. Everyone is trying to get into the SaaS market for the recurring revenue stream.

 

[LokiWolf]

Since I just purchased my 2024 Timberline a couple of months ago, the warranty protection is the big sell for me. I haven't gone down the mod rabbit hole like I have with my other vehicles (the E63 AMG wagon scratches that itch plenty) and when we decide if it will be my wife's or my primary, that will likely be the tipping point.

That said, I will try and chat with Ford Performance (realizing the is likely no better than a fool's errand) and ask for cross compatibility with the Expedition models and report back.

I repeat, as was discussed in another thread. You have a Timberline. You have the "HO", which is just a tune. There are no longer any hard part differences between the HO Motor and the "Normal" 3.5. You already basically have this tune. I promise you, Ford will not be doing this for the Expedition. Especially the 4th Gen. They might do it for the 5th(25+), but that is a BIG might. If they do a performance package, like the Stealth, they won't. IF they do it for the 4th Gen, it won't apply to the Stealth Performance or Timberline.