5.4 engine advice

[rjcnaples]

Hi I’m a newbie to this so please bare with me. I have a 1999 Expedition due to a earlier water pump issue. Which has been corrected it ran hot. Now I believe it has developed a blown head gasket. I purchase a test kit which checks for exhaust gas in the cooling system and that test positive. This is my question. I’m a good or average mechanic. And after reading about this. I’m not sure the best way to continue forward. How hard is it ( special tools, etc needed) to just replace the head gaskets and get heads checked for flatness and reinstall. OR would it be better to find a long block with heads. And just bolt on the accessories? Time isn’t the issue, money is.
Also went apart what other items ( timing, oil, coils, etc ) should I consider to replace also. Any direction would be great. Thx.


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[Trainmaster]

I had the same problem with my 2000 with 235,000 miles. I added the sealer to the motor and ran it for another 15,000 miles and junked it when the rear suspension rotted out.

The repair isn't a huge problem, but if you want to do it right, you'll spend a lot of money changing other stuff "while you're at it". If you pay for labor, you're probably better off putting in a rebuilt engine. If you do it yourself, you'll want to spend about $2000 on other new stuff while it's apart.

Sure you can just pull it apart and replace the gasket on the cheap. But it's a lot of work. Exhaust manifold will be shot, hoses, and all that stuff. Then you'll worry that you didn't do more while the engine was apart.

Very tough choices for a 20 year old truck that's no longer worth spit.

 

[JExpedition07]

If the truck is in good shape I’d say go for fixing it. I wouldn’t add sealer unless you plan to junk the truck.

Some think I’m crazy for replacing the exhaust manifolds on my 07’ with 170k miles.....people think the trucks should be junked once they are 10 years old rather than repair items. I don’t see it that way if it’s a good truck, my 07’ runs great and is in great shape. I repair and maintain. Chassis in great shape.

 

[1955moose]

Agree with [emoji581] master. Anytime an engine overheats it's bad. Blowing a head gasket or 2 makes things worse. You can easily put as much into that engine as the SUVs worth. Are you planning on keeping this vehicle long term? How many miles on this beast? We here like to keep as many of these 5800 pound people haulers going. That being said, I'd tear into it, that's easy, but try to line up another 99-02 motor with low miles, just in case. Rebuilding your heads, and pressure testing them for cracks is about $400.00 to $500.00 by themselves. You got timing chains, hoses, gaskets, and all kinds of goodies. These days, parts add up. As always keep in touch.

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[rjcnaples]

Thanks for the advice. The engine issue is the only problem the truck has. It has 134K miles on it and is in great condition inside and out. So I’m m going to buy rebuilt warranty long block and put it in. I live in Florida so do you have any suggestions on where to purchase a long block. Thx.


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[JExpedition07]

PowerSource has a pretty good reputation. They sell fully rebuilt long blocks with valve covers and all and ship the engine...their website is lacking to be kind....they use oem parts and I’ve read do a good job.

You can get a 5.4L 3V with pans and covers on for under $3,000 after core return. A 2V is around $2,500 if I remember correctly.

 

[TobyU]

It's a lot of work to pull the heads but doable.
Some would rather just pull engine and do it on a stand.
How many miles?
I would have heads cleaned up/surface cut/milled if they are warped but I bet they just need a basic "clean up" and put new gaskets on.
I would not do valve job and all that.
These things go 300K+ with no valve issues.
You will have exhaust manifold stud issues to fix once heads are off.
Either get stud kit or cheaper yet like I did, some grade 8 bolts and new felpro gaskets.
No real perfect solution as steel rusts away bolts or stud nuts and stainless that ford sells to "fix" isn't technically metallurgically the proper application.

I knew the new bolts would last longer than I would have the vehicle they were in.

Way test for head gasket failure is compression test on each cylinder and see if any plugs have coolant on the electrode when you pull them and a bad HG should blow steam out the tailpipe and or mix coolant into oil and make it look like a Wendy's frosty.

 

[and0r]

I had the same problem with my 2000 with 235,000 miles. I added the sealer to the motor and ran it for another 15,000 miles and junked it when the rear suspension rotted out.

The repair isn't a huge problem, but if you want to do it right, you'll spend a lot of money changing other stuff "while you're at it". If you pay for labor, you're probably better off putting in a rebuilt engine. If you do it yourself, you'll want to spend about $2000 on other new stuff while it's apart.

Sure you can just pull it apart and replace the gasket on the cheap. But it's a lot of work. Exhaust manifold will be shot, hoses, and all that stuff. Then you'll worry that you didn't do more while the engine was apart.

Very tough choices for a 20 year old truck that's no longer worth spit.

2k is a bit high.
most expensive thing on that engine is probably the injectors,
which should last very very long, especially if you properly clean them

though you would want to replace idler pully and whatever else is up there, which are all cheap
ABS leaks can be cheaply sealed, its going to look mean, but it will work. then just bypass the ABS after sealing. though, the truck will probably be much more dangerous to handle, if by chance the ABS is programmed for traction control. but i seriously doubt the system can sense what the wheels are doing. which is a good thing, less sh** to break.
i would bypass the cats, or do some highly jewish legal sh** which *technically* could pass as a cat. though, no police can legally be an expert on emissions, or something. idk who deals with emissions on the road.

 

[and0r]

biggest nightmare is the main wire harness or any copper wiring in general
though, less of a nighmare would be connectors and how the socket pins is soldered, those are easy to diagnose

i think the wiring on these trucks are good, not like the previous gen atleast
idk

 

[Machete]

I will never just do heads on an old block. You run the risk of creating blow-by between cylinder rings and cylinder walls.

Ask me how I know.

Create engine 100%.

 

[1955moose]

Agree with machete. You never want to disrupt piston rings seal. And by doing a valve job, and reinstalling on a motor with over 100k on up, you run that risk. Happened to my brothers car years back. His 63 Pontiac. Smoked like crazy after valve job. Best thing like Toby said, is clean up cumbustion Chambers, pressure check them for cracks, and lightly surface them for flatness, and seal. The thing that no one's mentioned here is you or a shops also going to have to check all eight cylinder walls for cracks.

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[JExpedition07]

I still think remanufactured engine from PowerSource or Ford is the way to go if you can afford it.

My reasoning is simple:
You get an entire “new” long block with new covers and gaskets vs a 20 year old engine. You will have no manifold or stud issues to deal with. Packaging all this together from a company that rebuilds engines all day long gives them an “economy of scale”. Meaning they provide you all these services more cost effectively than paying out parts and labor to tackle all the little issues on separately. It’s a package deal. I think you will come out ahead putting a new motor in than replacing all your problem children separate here. Either route is doable, but which is more cost effective for you is the question.

 

[TobyU]

I will never just do heads on an old block. You run the risk of creating blow-by between cylinder rings and cylinder walls.

Ask me how I know.

Create engine 100%.

That's exactly why I said I would not have a valve job done. Just clean the heads up to make sure they're straight and put new head gaskets on. While I have never had an engine start blowing oil or get lower compression after putting Fresh Heads on I have heard the wives tales and stories all of my life. If you do the top in the bottom will go out if you do the bottom and the top and we'll go out.
I personally think it's mostly all hype and I doubt it only happens in maybe 20% or fewer are the cases. But with every story, fishtail, or conspiracy theory there is always some grain of truth to it that it did happen at least once or twice.
Blown head gaskets get new head gaskets and that's it. Anything beyond that you pull the engine and go through it and freshen up the whole thing.

 

[1955moose]

It's not hype. Think about it for a second. You build a new engine in 2000 with all new Ford parts in say Dearborn Michagan. 18 years later you yank it apart due to an overheating problem, and now you have 180,000 miles on the odometer. You decide to surface heads, pressure test heads, and do a 3 angle valve job. After reassemble, the extra compression from the valve job, puts a strain on the 180k rings/ pistons. Now what? Your baby is smoking, and is consuming oil at a rate of 1 quart per 500 miles. Now what do you do genius? Happens more than you think.

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[TobyU]

It's not hype. Think about it for a second. You build a new engine in 2000 with all new Ford parts in say Dearborn Michagan. 18 years later you yank it apart due to an overheating problem, and now you have 180,000 miles on the odometer. You decide to surface heads, pressure test heads, and do a 3 angle valve job. After reassemble, the extra compression from the valve job, puts a strain on the 180k rings/ pistons. Now what? Your baby is smoking, and is consuming oil at a rate of 1 quart per 500 miles. Now what do you do genius? Happens more than you think.

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Like I said, I always err on the side of caution and I would just do the head gaskets. Never a valve job on a high mileage lower end.
And I don't doubt it happens I'm just personally never experienced it. Maybe I have just been lucky the times that I did put fresh heads on a lower end. I just personally don't think that old heads with 120,000 miles leak that much more than a fresh 3 angle valve job. So I don't really think there's that much strain being placed on it extra.
But have not researched it or read any actual experimental test where they have checked it out but I'm sure these tests exist.
So many variables to as to how many miles and how the engine was taken care of and whether it ran synthetic oil or conventional. I'm sure some engines could have 200,000 miles and put brand new heads on and the bottom and would last another hundred thousand but who knows.

 

[and0r]

needs iron heads

not sure how valve seats even last on aluminum

needs iron heads

 

[1955moose]

Toby your right, on newer cars say the past 20 years or so, valve seat wear, valve wear itself, has slowed tremendously. Back in the 40's, 50's, regrinding valves and seats was a 50-70 k thing. Nowadays, with hardened stellite exaust valve seats, due to removal of lead in fuel, wear is slowed tremendously. As far as I know exaust valves need to be replaced these days, with the hardening on the valves, they can't be cut. Aluminium heads downside, is the seats need to be replaced due to the softness of the heads recessing them downward. With cast iron seats, they still need to be changed, but usually it's more due to that valve breaking or bending. So yes cast iron heads in theory are more durable.

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[4whlmama]

I would have to say, it really comes down to how much you really love your expo or if you could live without it. Mine is an 02 and I love mine, but on the other hand the blue book value vs the cost of repair is where it gets me. Since I love mine as much as I do and it shows (Mine is in excellent condition), I would probably put money into it if the cost were under $1500. If it were the head then I would swap the entire motor.

The biggest repair I have had to do on mine thus far was the intake manifold. She hasn't been the same since! However, when the manifold blew, I couldn't afford the repair. So she sat for a couple of months and then I had an old friend that everyone calls, NASCAR. He earned this name from building rat rods! So I was confident that he could don the job right. Well, as I said, "old friend", he doesn't think the way he did when he was building rat rods. Unfortunately, the truck had no power and she had to be torn down a second time and by a different mechanic who claimed to have a degree in auto mechanics. Well he had a degree, but turns out he never went anywhere with that degree after he graduated college! He went to work with his father remodeling houses! So he didn't k ow what he was doing and his mistake was not replacing the crushed gasket with a new one and it had some serious air leaks! Never even test drove it after he was done. Started it and shut her down and started over with round 3! This time it was my boyfriend that did the work. We bought another brand new manifold and gaskets as well as plugs, wires, coils, injector seals and for good measure changed all the fluids. This time it was good!! It took 9 months to get her back on the road!

I have always been picky on my choice of wrencher that gets under the hood and this is exactly the reason why! I have the know how to fix stuff myself, but I physically can't due to a disabilitating medical condition!

My dad was a mechanic (RIP) and when I came to him to fix my rigs, he would get out his lawn chair and tell me to bring him some corona. He would instruct while I did the work. He said he was determined to make sure his daughter could tell ya what's wrong and how to fix it. I have walked into many shops with my vehicle and had to call them out on their BS! WITH THE RESULT OF A DISCOUNTED REPAIR JUST TO KEEP ME AS A CUSTOMER! I might be a girl, but I ain't no dummy! There is no such thing as alternator fluid and you won't see me trying to check the headlight hoses!

Back to the point...if it's valuable to your heart then sink the money into it, but don't do just the head. Swap the entire motor or rebuild. Parts for the expo are cheap and typically simple repairs. Good luck!

 

[TobyU]

needs iron heads

not sure how valve seats even last on aluminum

needs iron heads

Now you are just making funnies..or not done a whole lot or auto repair and engine building.

How about all those SBC aftermarket heads than make more power than the 202 "double hump" ones??? They are all aluminum.

 

[Rich_007]

! I might be a girl, but I ain't no dummy! There is no such thing as alternator fluid and you won't see me trying to check the headlight hoses!

Muffler bearing alignment is critical....