Another Cam phaser question...

[cdog2964]

I really want to sell my 2019 exp, but it has the cam phaser issue and i really dont want to **** that off on someone else, however, my dealership wont fix it. Laundry list of excuses from a bad oil filter causing the problem to there is a software fix coming... Does anyone know of escalation point within ford that have worked to get it fixed or can i use an outside mechanic to do the warranty work? It only has 28k miles on it and also has the extended warranty so this should be a no brainer to get warranty work approved.
thx

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I really want to sell my 2019 exp, but it has the cam phaser issue and i really dont want to **** that off on someone else, however, my dealership wont fix it. Laundry list of excuses from a bad oil filter causing the problem to there is a software fix coming... Does anyone know of escalation point within ford that have worked to get it fixed or can i use an outside mechanic to do the warranty work? It only has 28k miles on it and also has the extended warranty so this should be a no brainer to get warranty work approved.
thx

If it were me - I would contact an attorney to take legal action to force Ford (and its authorized service dealer) to repair your vehicle. The will be the escalation point that gets Ford's attention - and will cost them extra for attorney fees.

You should not have to beg or coerce your authorized Ford dealer to perform warranty repairs.

My two cents.

 

[duneslider]

If the manufacturer says it isn't a problem then you will have a tough time making any headway with an attorney? Even ford mechanics say the issue won't cause long term damage. Ford has said they have a software issue that will resolve the "noise" it makes at start up and that appears to now be their stance on the situation. Just sell it, if it really only has 28k miles it is still under the factory warranty and the new owner can take it to Ford if they want.

 

[Deadman]

Theres no point In fixing them. They don't hurt anything, and it has warranty. Just dump it.

 

[cdog2964]

If the manufacturer says it isn't a problem then you will have a tough time making any headway with an attorney? Even ford mechanics say the issue won't cause long term damage. Ford has said they have a software issue that will resolve the "noise" it makes at start up and that appears to now be their stance on the situation. Just sell it, if it really only has 28k miles it is still under the factory warranty and the new owner can take it to Ford if they want.

it does only have 28k miles and i understand that its still under warranty that will transfer to the next buyer. In fact i bought the extended 100k mile warranty, but would you want to buy a car with a known issue? I will definitely disclose it.

 

[Yupster Dog]

it does only have 28k miles and i understand that its still under warranty that will transfer to the next buyer. In fact i bought the extended 100k mile warranty, but would you want to buy a car with a known issue? I will definitely disclose it.

Take it to another dealership. Preferably a bigger one. (the bigger the better we have heard on here)
And dont go in asking go in telling,
Do your homework on the other threads about cam phasers get the (what is it TBS#?) and be ready to tell all the symptoms. Learn what they did to get the repair done and use that to your advantage. You have to go in letting them know you will not take no for an answer.
Squeeky wheel gets the grease.

 

[Fastcar]

With today's price's on used vehicles you will probably do just as well trading it as selling it. I traded my 2019 Ram pick up for 2K less than I paid for it. To a private party you sorta have to disclose. A dealer, they have access to your warranty claims, it is up to them to do their due diligence. Actually they don't care if something is wrong with it. There is a factory warranty involved, they will get Ford to fix it if they own it.

 

[cdog2964]

With today's price's on used vehicles you will probably do just as well trading it as selling it. I traded my 2019 Ram pick up for 2K less than I paid for it. To a private party you sorta have to disclose. A dealer, they have access to your warranty claims, it is up to them to do their due diligence. Actually they don't care if something is wrong with it. There is a factory warranty involved, they will get Ford to fix it if they own it.

Oh yes, that was absolutely our first choice, but there is really nothing out there. Its my wifes car and she really wants a similar type of SUV, other than another expedition, but there is really no tahoes, armadas, etc. at least in our area. we are going to talk to a dealer this weekend about ordering one, but we are afraid that if we wait the estimate 4-6 months, our current expedition wont be worth as much so we would like to dump it now.
Im also going to take it to carmax and see what they give me.
thx

 

[Fastcar]

Your going to really have to look hard. There are Expeditions here in FL, not all that far from you.

 

[Fastcar]

Look at https://www.garyyeomansford.com/searchnew.aspx?Year=2021&Model=Expedition They have some that might interest you.

 

[grumpyoleman]

Take it to another dealership. Preferably a bigger one. (the bigger the better we have heard on here)

/\ /\ This... I just had mine done last week. Dealership tech listened to a cold start, said take it home and I will call when the parts are in. 10 days later - major surgery and all is well.

 

[Drew Nicholson]

At the risk of doing this inappropriately, I'm copying the post I made in another cam phaser thread. With a TSB on the NHTSA web site, it certainly seems like you should be able to get a Ford dealer to do the warranty repair as it states in the TSB. Try another dealer. It's only 10 hours plus parts at ford warranty reimbursement rates so I doubt Ford is the issue (i.e. it's probably on the order of $1k or so that Ford pays for it). Since dealers get paid less, if they are a busy shop they might not want to schedule the time at a reduced rate. So just find another deaier who is happy to have work regardless. It's not like they lose money on warranty work.

Aloha,

This TSB seems to suggest it is supposed to be repaired under warranty. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10180531-0001.pdf
Which I will be asking for as my new to me 19 is making the ticking noise.
The TSB says it affects vehicles built before 10/31/19, and includes some 2020’s.
This seems like a straightforward request; we shall see …

Mahalo

 

[cdog2964]

At the risk of doing this inappropriately, I'm copying the post I made in another cam phaser thread. With a TSB on the NHTSA web site, it certainly seems like you should be able to get a Ford dealer to do the warranty repair as it states in the TSB. Try another dealer. It's only 10 hours plus parts at ford warranty reimbursement rates so I doubt Ford is the issue (i.e. it's probably on the order of $1k or so that Ford pays for it). Since dealers get paid less, if they are a busy shop they might not want to schedule the time at a reduced rate. So just find another deaier who is happy to have work regardless. It's not like they lose money on warranty work.

Aloha,

This TSB seems to suggest it is supposed to be repaired under warranty. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10180531-0001.pdf
Which I will be asking for as my new to me 19 is making the ticking noise.
The TSB says it affects vehicles built before 10/31/19, and includes some 2020’s.
This seems like a straightforward request; we shall see …

Mahalo

So is this in conjunction with the software update that has been mentioned on this board? Sorry, im not mechanically inclined hence the reason i buy new cars. Dont get me wrong, i have had problems in the past with new cars, but ive never had dealers just flat out refuse to fix them. And yes, ive been to multiple dealers. 3 to be exact.

 

[Drew Nicholson]

I’m going to guess the software update that’s now out is part of the TSB. But other posters make clear that the software update doesn’t fix the rattle. Mine has the first version of the software update and it’s rattling, although not nearly as much as the video kyle r posted that I just listened to.

Have the dealers you have been to said you don't have a cam phaser issue, and if not, have they diagnosed the issue? This all sounds quite bizarre to me.

But I have to admit I'm not so sure about Ford dealer service anymore. The dealer closest to me is super handy and seemed ok. They even had the best pricing for putting a new engine in my truck. But when they tried to charge me a third time for a leak on the new engine, I got tired of the other issues there I was ignoring. Apparently the tech's are the one's who say what's being fixed and charged for, and nobody was reviewing my service history to see that I had a brand new engine and I'd already paid to fix a coolant leak on the brand new engine that should have been warranty.

Finding reliable auto service is still super hard, as it always has been. :-(

 

[duneslider]

I am guessing there is a newer TSB that supersedes the cam phaser TSB linked. Also, just because there is a TSB doesn't mean they "have" to do something, especially if they deem a software update will "fix" the issue. The only time a manufacturer "has" to fix something is when there is a safety recall and the govt is forcing the fix. Dealers typically won't do work on vehicles unless they know Ford will pay them for the work. So, the task is finding a service group that will fight your cause and get Ford to agree to pay for it.

It is sounding more and more like Ford doesn't want to replace cam phasers...

 

[grumpyoleman]

It is my understanding (always subject to being wrong) that they are still fixing the Cam Phasers that are rattling but are hoping for a software fix for those that have not developed the rattle.

When mine was repaired just last week, '19 Navi w/40k, after getting it back I noticed two things;
1) no more rattle.
2) the motor spins over about a half second longer than I expected. Not excessive, but noticeable. Used to fire up immediately, but I caught that it did not fire up right away.

Kind of figured #2 was a result of the software update allowing the motor to spin over a wee bit longer to get oil pressure up and delivered to the top by the phasers.

 

[cdog2964]

I’m going to guess the software update that’s now out is part of the TSB. But other posters make clear that the software update doesn’t fix the rattle. Mine has the first version of the software update and it’s rattling, although not nearly as much as the video kyle r posted that I just listened to.

Have the dealers you have been to said you don't have a cam phaser issue, and if not, have they diagnosed the issue? This all sounds quite bizarre to me.

But I have to admit I'm not so sure about Ford dealer service anymore. The dealer closest to me is super handy and seemed ok. They even had the best pricing for putting a new engine in my truck. But when they tried to charge me a third time for a leak on the new engine, I got tired of the other issues there I was ignoring. Apparently the tech's are the one's who say what's being fixed and charged for, and nobody was reviewing my service history to see that I had a brand new engine and I'd already paid to fix a coolant leak on the brand new engine that should have been warranty.

Finding reliable auto service is still super hard, as it always has been. :-(

At first they did tell me i didnt have the cam phaser issue, rather a bad oil filter from my last oil change. Mind you, that they performed... Obviously that wasnt it and the last time i had it in they did admit it was bad cam phasors, but the software fix that was coming out will fix that right up...

 

[Drew Nicholson]

Speaking as a computer hardware and software engineer of some 30+ years experience, a software fix can not repair existing mechanical damage. It could prevent the damage, and it might be able to cover up the damage, but it positively cannot fix damage. That's impossible.

 

[Drew Nicholson]

@duneslider that's the most recent tsb I can find using the search terms "nhtsa technical service ford vct"

I'm about to call the dealer where I bought the expy and I'll find out what their service dept. says. I figure that's the easiest place to start ...

 

[Trainmaster]

Speaking as a computer hardware and software engineer of some 30+ years experience, a software fix can not repair existing mechanical damage. It could prevent the damage, and it might be able to cover up the damage, but it positively cannot fix damage. That's impossible.

Yeah, that "software fix" seems like a real scummy solution to a problem that Ford doesn't want to address properly. Almost embarrassing. Why isn't the automotive media all over this? Oh yeah, we don't really have one anymore. They just write about wi-fi and cup holders now in the foreign brands that advertise.