Another dead/no start thread - 07

[JDuncan]

Our 2007 Limited shut down on I-65 during rush hour traffic tonight. Wife had to fight to get the thing over to the shoulder thanks to traffic and no power steering. She turns it off and when she turns the key back on, the dash is going crazy, like it is running some diagnostic. Much more going on then the usual lamp illumination at startup. The truck does not crank. Anti-theft is doing a fast flash. She called me and started me that direction from work. After about 15 minutes, she tried again and the truck started up like nothing was wrong. She was going to try to get to the dealer but the truck only ran about 5 minutes and shut off on her again. At least she was off the interstate. I get to her about 10 minutes after that and it is still doing the crazy dash thing. I checked what I knew to check and didn't find anything wrong. A good Samaritan who worked at Kentucky Truck Plant (Ford has been making the Expeditions there since 2009) and now runs his own auto repair shop stops to help and assures me it is the starter. I'm not so sure.

Anyway, we were able to get to the dealership by going through wait, start, die, wait again cycle 3 more times. Had to use the night drop as it was 6:15 when we got there and they closed at 6. Has anyone else seen this. In my mind, something electrical is overheating. I don't know what, but I can't believe it is the starter. To me, once you are done starting the vehicle, the starter is dead weight. I can't see how an issue with the starter would make the engine shut down at highway speeds.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[jphelps44]

Fuel

It could be something fuel related. Please let me know when you find out!

 

[JDuncan]

3/4 of a tank of gas (was filled up on Saturday) and the engine would not crank at all when having the issue, so I don't think it is gas. Not unless there is some sensor in the fuel system that disables the starter. Who knows...

 

[bedrck46]

check the PCM, run/start and the starter relays in the battery junction box under the hood

 

[stamp11127]

The dealer will run diagnostics to pinpoint the cause. A bad electrical connection can cause something similar.
For the most part you are correct about the starter. The only time it can cause real problems is when it sticks after starting the engine and continues running. Problem is, now it is a generator that is unregulated. Cook time for electronics.

I believe there is a past thread with this problem that turned out to be battery related.

 

[bedrck46]

kindly keep the forum updated

 

[JDuncan]

Will do. Dealer has it and I'm hopeful to hear what is going on tomorrow.

 

[JDuncan]

Dealer believes it is the PCM. Quote is $1050 installed and "there could be other things that were damaged when it failed and there is no way to tell till you have a different PCM." What do the knowledgeable here think of this diagnosis? Believable?

 

[bedrck46]

as stated yesterday check PCM relay
change the relay and see what happens
but dealer could be right

 

[JDuncan]

Mechanic reports no issue with battery or relay. PCM on order. Ouch. Down till Monday for sure.

 

[stamp11127]

A dealer that "believes" it is the pcm vs one that proves beyond a doubt it is the pcm tells me they don't know and are guessing. They need to prove the pcm failed before condemning it. They would have something such as "unable to communicate with the pcm" when they try to diagnose it. Or during diagnosis there shows no output to the injectors.

Basically a more informative proof of failure before tossing parts at it. The following is from Fords Service Manual for 2007 for replacing the pcm:

Removal and Installation

Retrieve the module configuration. Carry out the module configuration retrieval steps of the Programmable Module Installation procedure. For additional information, refer to Section 418-01
Disconnect the battery ground cable. For additional information, refer to Section 414-01 .
Disconnect the 2 PCM electrical connectors.
Remove the 2 bolts and the ground cable.
To install, tighten to 7 Nm (62 lb-in).
Remove the PCM.
To install, reverse the removal procedure.
Installation

Install the PCM.
Position the ground cable and install the 2 bolts.
Tighten to 7 Nm (62 lb-in).
Connect the 3 PCM electrical connectors.
Connect the battery ground cable. For additional information, refer to Section 414-01 .
NOTE: When a new PCM is installed, the air bag warning indicator will illuminate when the ignition switch is ON. The warning indicator will remain on until PCM configuration is restored

NOTE: Clear all restraints control module (RCM) continuous diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) after Programmable Module Installation procedure has been completed on the PCM.

Restore the module configuration. Carry out the module configuration restore steps of the Programmable Module Installation procedure. For additional information, refer to Section 418-01

So if they say that they were unable to download the configuration I would ask they if they verified it was getting power. If they did then yep it is toast.

 

[JDuncan]

The statement given to me is that they were able to communicate with it and that it was showing codes for every system from throttle body to fuel pump and that Ford's direction in this scenario was to replace it. I had hoped it was a battery or alternator issue...

 

[bedrck46]

you say you took it to the dealer was that a ford dealer or used car dealer??

 

[stamp11127]

From the ecm failures I've seen on the big truck side that isn't the normal failure but one that is encountered with bad grounds. Usually when they fail something quits outright or there isnt any communication with it or it just doesn't cooperate. Did they give you a printout from the diagnosis showing the codes?

 

[JDuncan]

It is at a Ford dealership (Town & Country on Preston Hwy here in Louisville). They haven't provided me with any printouts.

 

[stamp11127]

Your in a salty environment during winter. I would ask if the checked the pcm grounds before putting in the new pcm. They can return it if needed. Their factory service manuals shows them where all the ground points are, so don't let them bs you.

 

[bedrck46]

dealerships AKA stealerships