Banker with tools vs Cylinder Head

[rvanbeers]

I spent many hours researching this and have found very little. I hope this helps someone as I document this and hope people provide some insight before I get too deep. Here's the story so far

Misfire on 2. Changed COP plugs etc. Took to large Automotive shop they recommended a 800 spark plug change. I said WT F I just changed them did you open the hood? $120 for their 16 year old kid code read

Next stop ford. They said #2 cylinder dead and no compression (relative compression - Google that and not much there). $255 bucks and recommended mechanical diagnosis.

Next stop small shop close to my office for a leak down. Diagnosis - broke rocker arm /open intake valve. $500 to fix. Sure enough rocker arm broke (came off...I'm not sure) I authorized the repair. Replaced it and lash $755...... but wait......they forgot to tell me about the bent valve caused by the rocker arm being dislodged. Because of the bent valve they had to set a higher clearance but it still sticks. 755 dollars later, I still have no compression and a lovely tick which wasn;t there before. They said new engine. 19 Hours to pull the head or 22 hours to replace the engine.

Thought to myself I have tools and time and I always like to add more tools if needed. My mechanical experience extends to brakes, Fuel pumps, Ignition etc. I've never torn down a motor let alone go toe to toe with the tight fit 2003 5.3 expy.

I have purchased the Chilton Manual and have begun the process. I'm down to the intake manifold and valve cover removed. Before I go any deeper.........

Am I off my rocker or is this doable in vehicle. I have no problem taking time.

If I (when I) get the head out what should I expect in terms of fixing a bent intake valve. My assumption is to take it to a rebuilder/machine shop. Is this a big job? Can the valve be bent back or is it bigger.

Timing chain / cam scares the crap out of me. Am I reading too much into it?

Lastly - if anyone has done this. What is the biggest challenge I face following the intake removal. The thing that may create tall bridge type thoughts. I'm taking lots of pictures and documenting the process. Im good at taking things apart. Its putting it back together that may be an issue.

Any insight is greatly appreciated:********:

 

[stamp11127]

Before going any farther I'd suggest reading the manual on removing the heads, setting the cam timing and basic procedure of the repair. Look at the investment in tools you may not have and will need to purchase or borrow.

And you'll probably snap a few exhaust manifold bolts in the removal process.

Good rule is to change both heads when doing this. I always source rebuilt heads/gasket set/head bolts prior to starting. That way I have everything before I start and can compare heads in case I need to move anything from the old to the new.

Depending on current mileage & how long I plan on keeping the vehicle, I'd also consider an engine swap.

 

[1997SCEBFEX]

Good rule is to change both heads when doing this. I always source rebuilt heads/gasket set/head bolts prior to starting.

+1 on this. my repower/build was quoted $2995 before accessories and just a bit over $4000 out-the-door w/ a three-year (original owner) warranty. took time, but they machined it, ported/polished...the long part was reassembly because of the s/c and aftercooler and plumbing.

fyi that i had 147K when the #3 ejected, then ingested itself cracking the passenger-side head.

I would NOT recommend doing on-frame, pull her out...you'll wish you did in the long run IMHO.

 

[rvanbeers]

Hmm. Growing confused. I'm cheap and only wanted to fix the bent intake valve and hope to get another 25K.

Opinions please. Pull the passenger head on the frame??? or.... if I have to pull the motor I might as well try and source a low mileage used. Yes or know. Is pulling the motor an easier task n- i.e disconnecting Trany etc. I'm trying to balance my capabilities and expense.

 

[FordandPolaris]

If you are only looking for another 25k in mileage, buy a 1st gen expy and sell the one you have as a mechanic's special. 1st gens are ridiculously cheap (many under 3k with life left in them) but if you are going to go to the trouble of replacing one valve, you may as well rebuild the top end on both sides. It is going to be tough to do inside the truck as has been said.

 

[stamp11127]

It will be as much of a pain in the ass to change the head as it will be to swap the engine.
They both will have you cussing up a storm before it is over....
You already have almost $800 in it. Why cut corners now?
If the expy is a pos, dump it and get a better one.
Personally I'd go the lower mileage engine route. I'm pretty sure the 4.6 is also used in the Crown Vics.
How many miles are on the clock?

 

[rvanbeers]

It has 220 KM (125K Miles). The truck is immaculate so worthy of a few dollars but not an additional $3 grand. it's the 5.4 2V

I'm going to continue the battle and get to head of things. Fixing the valve and putting it back together is a $2K increase in resale value should I decide to dump it.

Stay tuned for a good laugh. Going to tackle the exhaust, fan and radiator tomorrow. If the one side goes well I may bite the bullet and do both.

Thanks for all the comments. Has anyone here tried to pull the head off in the vehicle or are these good judgement comments?

 

[samuraj]

check youtube for head removal

 

[stamp11127]

I don't remember who it was but one member stated you had to leave the head bolts in the head, loose of course, when removing the heads.

Once you have the head off, coat the cylinders with heavy oil to prevent/slow rusting. Don't be stingy either. Same with the deck once it's clean.

Soak any rusted hardware with PB Blaster and let it sit a few hours. Don't be stingy here also.

Set the engine at TDC on #1 cylinder or what the manual says if different before taking off the chains.

Keep the bolts/hardware separate and labeled. Makes it easier to reassemble.
I use one or two of the crafts plastic 24 bin containers with lid.

You'll probably need the cam tools - "Ford 4.6L, 5.4L, & 6.8L Modular V-8, 2-Valve 1992 - Up, Cam Timing Service Tool Kit" See if your local auto parts will rent them or google for a set.

Happy wrenching

 

[rburch]

If it were me i would drop the heads off at a machine shop and have them do the heads.

More than likely the bent valve is probably going to need a new valve guide and that is not doable in the driveway!

 

[Big Red Monster]

pull both heads, dont be cheap when your this deep into the motor, all your doing is asking for more trouble if you half ass it.

 

[rvanbeers]

Update and Help

At this pace I should have the job done by next FEB. Interestingly enough...the auto shop work that cost me $750 to FIX the problem...(rocker arm) didn't even last from the shop to my house (see the picture - rocker arm fell off again). They also tied wire around the spring (what the He_ _ would that have been for?) I think I'll be asking for some money back

So far I have the

1. Intake off
2. Valve Cover Off
3. Fan/fan cover removed (that was fun without the ford fan clutch tool !!!)
4. Inner fender passenger side out

I'm about to tackle the exhaust manifold. Can a guy just disconnect the flange and remove the manifold with the head? The manifold bolts look near impossible to access all.

Is there any tricks for getting at the top flange bolt. The bottom one I can get from underneath. The top one I thought would be easy from the side bu needs a deep socket.

Once I get the exhaust resolved I'll be on to the various pulleys, timing cover Setting TDC, markings etc. Do you need the cam tool or is there something else a guy can do for the 2V to lock the cam shaft in place.

 

[rvanbeers]

Doing both heads vs bent vavle

Thanks for the comments on doing both heads. Let's just call the engine tear-down a new hobby and learning experience. Time costs me nothing and I just want the vehicle running with out a miss fire. I can't see investing in both heads and rationale is if I fix the valve it should be back in good running order and what will break down will break down.

 

[toms89]

If you pull your head without pulling the motor you may find your rear head bolts do not have enough room to be removed as said. You can use rubber band to hold them up to clear the block. See attached photo.

An important thing to do before removal of heads is line up your timing marks and then do not rotate motor while head is off. This will allow you to easily line up the cam upon re-installation.

I would say its much more likely valve was bent due to piston to valve contact due to it hanging open. As rburch said you should take the head to the machine shop and have repaired because you will have to replace both valve and valve guide at minimum. They can also check to make sure there is not more extensive damage there such as a cracked head. You will have to determine if there was any piston contact or damage when the head is off.

If you end up having to get a replacement head make sure you get the identical head. Used heads should be plentiful and cheap. They are both windsor and romeo 2v heads. Both will work but they use different valve covers and timing cover bolt holes are different sizes. I believe yours should be windsor with the 5.4. New 2v heads only come in the romeo variety.

Can't tell from your photo but the romeo heads are easily identifiable because they have a cam girdle. Windsors do not.

 

[stamp11127]

Rvanbeers I truly hope you pull this off and are lucky. The question will be for how long?
For a learning experience tear downs are easy, its putting them back together - in the correct order without parts missing and not having to redo anything that separates the men from the boys.
I have to ask this....are you investing in new head bolts and upper end gaskets?

 

[rvanbeers]

Toms 89 - Great tip with the elastic and comments on the head. Piston smack...hmmm. I'm sure hoping the shop did the leak-down as I asked and the problem is only the intake valve being bent. I don't quite get how that pushes the rocker off but I'm sure I'll understand once the head is off.

Stamp - I'm cheap but not that cheap. I'm balancing risk vs reward and will definitely invest in necessary new parts including head bolts. I'm guessing two reconditioned heads will run me about $800 - $1000 and then I risk not getting the sucker back together properly in which case I should just get a low mileage engine but will then probably bugger something on the drive train.

I'm keeping everything well organized, have labeled bins with bolts, pictures and probably spend more time looking at things then actually wrenching and have a fairly large garage to do this in. Your comments are valid though and I hope to reach man like status. Worse case scenario is I pull the motor and then tow it to a reputable place to drop in a new rebuilt or low KM motor.

 

[toms89]

You can get brand new Ford Racing PI heads left and right for $850ish rather than having them rebuilt depending on the cost.

These are direct replacement romeo heads with mustang cams. You may want to swap on your stock cams if you take that route. If you have windsor heads you would need romeo valve covers and timing cover bolt holes are smaller. Either need to tap them out or use the smaller bolts. If you have romeo heads your set.

These are 8 thread heads and many venders sell them.

Ford Racing 4.6L 5.4L Power Improvment (PI) Cylinder Heads(1996-04 GT) at rpmoutlet.com Part Number M-6049-P46

 

[stamp11127]

Rvanbeers, if there is enough room around the exhaust manifold, you can remove it with the head. Soak the flange nuts with PB Blaster and let it soak overnight before hitting them with the impact.

Have plenty of back pain medicine available if your pushing middle age or older. You'll understand why once you lift it.

FYI Once you start putting it back together, check the head gasket orientation on the engine so that you don't cover up openings by accident. Don't know if the gaskets are the same for the left and right, they may not be interchangeable. It is very important to pay attention here.
Also when torquing the head bolts, do them in steps. The manual should state the ft/lbs of each step and the order. Don't do it in one shot to save time.

 

[toms89]

I would highly recommend the following book. Its very informative and may help.

How to Rebuild 4.6-/5.4-Liter Ford Engines: George Reid: 9781613250433: Amazon.com: Books


Factory service manuals are also much more detailed and specific to your particular year/model. I get one for any vehicle I own and plan to service.

 

[rvanbeers]

Ok...First good laugh. Soaked the flange bolts over night. They looked good.

Put the impact on them....rattled for 15 minutes, more blaster, more rattling. WTF. Stamp....you forgot to tell me to put the impact in reverse. Came off in a couple of seconds. As for removing the exhaust manifold, the nuts and bolts are in good shape but you would have to shrink yourself to a 4 inch person to get at the front 4.

I pray to god it will come out with the head. If not.....any magician ideas???