believe torque converter shudder

[ddgts68]

Newbie , little info 99 xlt, 4wd, 5.4l. when tranny goes in overdrive about 45 mph truck vibrates like driving on washboard road. od off makes it go away. However it doesn't disengage when brake applied.

 

[1955moose]

Usually when tapping the brake doesn't stop shuddering, its usually internal. You might try flushing fluid, normally not recommended, especially if you have high mileage on tranny. Is fluid burnt, or is their other problems besides shudder? Later models have the shudder issue, not so much with 4 r100/ 4r70. If it was me I'd try a full drain, including torque convertor. If the fluid's burnt, I'd leave it be, and contemplate a new trans.

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[ddgts68]

doesn't smell burnt. plan on drain and filter Saturday. When I tapped brake rpm's didn't change like it didn't unlock? has 170,000 plus miles. only other issues have fuel smell near fuel tank, and no cats. Thanks

 

[1955moose]

Well give it a shot! Be sure to drain torque convertor well. Do you know if it has mercon v synthetic, or regular mercon? They don't play well together. If not 100 percent sure, you might want to drain, refill, then drain again. Luckily yours like mine has drain plugs. Dealers and most shops use mercon v exclusively. Your other option is to have it flushed, then you'll know. Check your owners book as to which fluid, if you do yourself. Let us know how it turns out. Moose

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[and0r]

doesn't smell burnt. plan on drain and filter Saturday. When I tapped brake rpm's didn't change like it didn't unlock? has 170,000 plus miles. only other issues have fuel smell near fuel tank, and no cats. Thanks

the fuel smell is coming from some kind of evap purge canister or something like that
its not working properly because there is a burnt ground. the engine looks like it melts it. the ground wire is a bit odd, im not sure if its a ground wire, but thats what it looks like. i have never bothered to fix it, because i really dont care where my gas vents lol.
funny thing is, there is an old thread, with some guy who is fiddling with this issue, and he is doing hardcore elecronic engineering and diagnosis on his expedition, and other people are joining the thread like scientists or something, nobody sees the melted wire. lol

you also need to suppliment the O2 sensor signal from the missing cats,
can you post a video of your truck doing a cold start (over 8rs rest) and just warming up/idling for several minutes?

 

[ddgts68]

I could see a trail from the inlet of the fuel tank down to skid plate, tightened the fuel filler hose still smell it. going to replace hose see if that helps. Was going to put a cat in heard / read somewhere only need one between o2 sensors. Drove truck this am vibration feels more behind me and driver side. Going to take my f150 out see if torque converter unlocks when tapping brake, as this is not happening now

 

[ddgts68]

shouldn't I see a rpm increase when I tap the brake and the converter unlocks?

 

[1955moose]

Did you ever drain/ flush transmission? I'm reading all kinds of other stuff that has nothing to do with drive line shuddering. Any driveability issues like a miss, or exaust restriction will affect up shifting, but you'd notice lower gears affected, not just overdrive. Fix all your little issues of course, but try dumping that fluid/ filter. Your only talking $60.00 parts, your labor is free time.If then it still does the rumble in the jungle, you'll know it's internal. Hopefully not. Post your results after the drain.

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[ddgts68]

I have not, will be able to do it tomorrow evening. Other than no cats no other issues.

 

[ddgts68]

so I finally got to draining fluid and changing filter. 13 quarts came out 15 went in, drove last night it had a vibration/ shudder for about 2 seconds, seems to have gone away! I'll find out more when I get home from work and wife has driven all day. Could the 2 quarts short have caused the original problem? I checked the fluid first could have sworn it was in safe range. Also driving last night I believe the torque converter is not locking up. Any ideas? I'll check fuses and such when I get home tonight.

 

[1955moose]

What do you mean torque convertor is not locking up? What symptoms are you getting now? You said the shuddering went away. It takes time for the fluid to make its way through pump/ torque convertor. Two quarts low would definitely cause problems. Pressure is dependent on proper level in trans. Imagine trying to pump oil throughout your motor with only 4 quarts vs 6. It would be struggling!

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[ddgts68]

when I first started having problems I noticed that when I stepped/tapped brake there was no rpm increase as if torque converter was not unlocking. When I drove it the other night I was paying close attention to rpm's and was only seeing 3 rpm drops as speed was increased. Made me think converter isn't unlocking because it isn't locking in first place? Also wife drove yesterday said vibration/shudder was still there?

 

[1955moose]

The toughest problem your going to run into is finding a shop that is capable/willing to diagnose your problem. Their are 2 torque convertor solenoids that possibly could be at fault. Theirs probably a test, but at $30.00 each, id just swap in new ones. I think you stated theirs no noises coming from transmission, if a torque convertor doesn't lock up, you'd have slipping, overheating of transmission, along with the 30-50 mph shuddering. Your going to need to hunt your area for a real transmission specialist. One that can diagnose your problem. Ask a lot of questions. Another option, is to install both of the torque converters solenoids yourself. Between parts and some of your time its under $100.00. Your fluid is brand new, if not burnt, reuse most of it. That's what I'd do for now.

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[ddgts68]

Thanks Moose you have been a great help. I've seen a torque converter clutch solenoid would you know the name of the other I can go to rock auto and look? There is a noticeable rpm increase and decrease as the converter lock and unlocks on my 97 f150 that I am not seeing on the expedition

 

[1955moose]

It's called a pulse width modulation solenoid. It looks like the first one is a bolt on item. Maybe someone here that has more trans knowledge can chime in how to further test or if we're barking up the wrong tree! This is out of my comfort zone. Me personally have always saved open heart surgery for last resort! If its an outside replacement part and a possibility, I'd try it, what are you out, maybe $50.00 or less. Hell we spend more than that drinking or watching a ball game!

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[ddgts68]

I agree I figure if I'm not spending more than a couple of payments a year I'm ahead of the game! however if it's the tranny I have to do some serious pondering!

 

[1955moose]

Well that's why we and I always recommend testing first. Sometimes you've got to say what the hey, and swap out a part. In some cases you can return the part. It's not a total science! Especially transmission issues, that's why most shops wimp out and sell you a complete transmission, that way they know their going to get paid, parts/labor. Same goes for engine issues, they could spend hours troubleshooting, and be wrong, or sell you a reman motor, and know it's going to work. Sadly it's the world we live in.

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[ddgts68]

Well I decide to take drive shaft out and check u joints. They felt good while in but I had a jeep that felt good that would bind at tranny at 45 mph. Anyways the seemed to be alright tranny one was loose but not sloppy feeling. Decided to change them since it was out. Had a spicer tranny yoke which started the u joint nightmare as the ones called for is to short for that end and a project when you install them and they're to short. Reinstalled drive shaft went on 20 mile drive (city/ hwy) got no vibration. Hopefully this is it!! Have to figure torque converter lock up another time.

 

[ddgts68]

I Believe the converter is locking up , it is subtle compared to my f150. I did see movement in the rpms as it turned on and off. Think. I'm going to change front diff fluid since all others are done and install the front drive shaft.

 

[steelnewfie]

Hey Moose. Ever get an answer if this fixed the 50-55mph shudder? I have ruled out Universal joint on my 06EB but fixed some wonky vibrations. Tightening plugs fixed my (everyone thinks it's a normal Ford 'tick' sound especially in drivethroughs). Removing/replacing catalytic converters fixed a whole BUNCH of things (175K miles). My fuel economy went up 80 miles per tank!! Incredible difference. But I still have that f-king shudder when overdrive is deciding if it wants to drop down.. I was just going to buy the clutch solenoid but as I read more, it could, feasibly be the PWM. So she shifts PERFECT, except from the overdrive to fourth/third. Shifts perfect INTO overdrive. Any idea which solenoid controls the shift OUT of overdrive? Thanks!! Love this Triton the more I fix it. It's going in my 2003 Mustang GT when its 4.6 explodes.