Cam upgrade

[joezek]

I've got a 2008 EL Expedition 4WD. Figured out where a ticking/clunking was coming from. It was a seized roller/rocker. The cam lobe is ruined too.

Since I need to replace the cam, I wanted to see if anyone knows if there's an improved cam that gives more torque or mpg. I locked out the SCT system and installed new chains/tensioners. The truck is used to tow a boat about 99% of each weekend of the year.

The plan is to replace the lifters, rockers and cams.

Joe

 

[Hamfisted]

Stock cams with working phasers would give you your best towing motor...

 

[mr_dave]

Performance cams do exist, however they're not cheap and you would need to get it custom tuned to take advantage of the different cam profile.

 

[joezek]

I did some more reading and talked to a few tuners and cam manufacturers for their input. Competition Cams recommended their 127050 cam grind. It supposedly increases the torque about 25lbs at the low rpm range and HP by +30 above 4900. If I have my SCT tuned a bit locally on a dyno then supposedly there's more room for TQ and HP. Most people I talked to said you can hear the cam profile very slightly through the stock exhaust and definitely know it's been changed with upgraded exhaust. No torque converter needs to be changed, or any valve springs etc. Would be a simple upgrade. The mustang forums guys sometimes refer to this cam as a "Stealth" grind because it's barely noticeable until you step on it.

 

[Hamfisted]

Are those numbers with a working cam phaser system ? I would assume so.

 

[joezek]

The tuner shops I talked to said to eliminate the cam phasers any time you get a chance. One of them said the numbers are even better at low rpm with it locked out. With the cam phasers working it will extend your top end power curve a few hundred rpm's higher and maybe 10 HP more just above 5300K RPM. For towing and daily driving, I don't care about what the engine might be able to do at that redline RPM, so I much rather not deal with the VCT system and all the possible headaches.

The part I like the most about getting rid of the VCT is that the power curve and torque are higher than stock starting at a lower RPM and stay there throughout the entire RPM range, compared to with the VCT system. With the VCT system there's less power at low RPM and you have to step on it more to get the same HP and TQ at the normal daily driving RPM range. The VCT system looks better on Ford's vehicle specs/advertising because it shows about 10 HP higher.

So basically I think using the Comp cam and having the VCT system removed should give the best low rpm performance for towing.

 

[mr_dave]

The tuner shops I talked to said to eliminate the cam phasers any time you get a chance. One of them said the numbers are even better at low rpm with it locked out. With the cam phasers working it will extend your top end power curve a few hundred rpm's higher and maybe 10 HP more just above 5300K RPM.

Interesting. I assumed the opposite, that the phasers helped low RPM torque. I couldn't care less about a few hp above 5k. Lockouts, cams, and a tune suddenly sound a lot more attractive when the time comes.

So basically I think using the Comp cam and having the VCT system removed should give the best low rpm performance for towing.

If you go that route I'd be very interesting in your review.

 

[ThwopKing]

If you want to do cams, I would recommend custom instead of off the shelf. The cost isnt much more if any and it usually turns out better.
I would also recommend Todd Warren with Apocalypse Performance. https://www.facebook.com/groups/354511478713866

 

[joezek]

Oh damn, I already installed the Comp cams. Probably swapping the engine next week. The engine is on the stand right now.

 

[mr_dave]

If you want to do cams, I would recommend custom instead of off the shelf. The cost isnt much more if any and it usually turns out better.
I would also recommend Todd Warren with Apocalypse Performance. https://www.facebook.com/groups/354511478713866

That sounds interesting. With a mostly stock motor, what benefits would a custom cam provide vs. Comp Cams?

 

[ThwopKing]

That sounds interesting. With a mostly stock motor, what benefits would a custom cam provide vs. Comp Cams?

It could be more built for your specific combo.... could be built for more low or mid powerband.... not saying it would be a world it difference and there's nothing wrong with going with an "off the shelf" cam per se. But for pretty much the same price it might fit your needs better.

 

[joezek]

I talked to (via email) Todd Warren cams about my build up. He had great knowledge and input, but right off the bat he had plans for me to change valve springs and put a high 2800 stall converter for the cam he wanted. I already told him I use it for towing not racing, and it's almost 6k lbs. I'd be slipping the converter all the time, and the exhaust and truck intake fall completely flat at 4500 rpm. I don't think he's absorbing that. So basically when I drive it would snap to 3000rpm, and only have another 1500 left to go before shifting and then wasting half the next gear. I'm not putting a mustang intake and headers on it.

I went back to what this truck was designed for, and focused on that power range. Any mods that I do will be to improve torque, not high rpms that this setup will never get to. The comp cams are working out really well. Engine is still breaking in.