Changing Relay turns off ABS & 4x4 lights and fixes turn signal - but problem returns

[HarveyCat]

Oops Sorry: Changing Relay no longer turns off ABS, 4x4 lights, or fixes turn signal

Changing the relay turns off my ABS & 4x4 lights and also fixes my non working turn signals (flashers always work) - but all three problems always return (with or without rain) And if ignored they also go away on their own too... However -- I can fix all these issues if I just pull the 3 big relays from the fuse box under the dash and swap them out for others.

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Other attempts to fix this -- that I have done to date:
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Fixed any windshield leaks professionally & fixed leak from cowl to engine compartment. Professionally checked sunroof drains etc..

Sealed some wires that were nicked in the wheelwell

Changed the multi-function switch and put on a new connector.

Inspected GEM and Fuse box -- and see no signs of water ever getting to them.

At first this issue was just the ABS & 4x4 lights -- but the turn signals also joined in later.

There are now codes.

-= 2002 EB Expedition 5.4L =-

 

[stamp11127]

It is probably not the relay that is causing the problem since it returns.

As I understand what you are saying:
1) the ABS light will come on
2) turn signals do not work but the hazard lights do
3) 4x4 light will come on

What multifunction switch did you get? New or junkyard?
What was wrong with the original connector?
How did you replace the connector? What method did you tie into the existing wiring?
What codes are now showing up?

 

[HarveyCat]

Hi Thanks

As I understand what you are saying:
1) the ABS light will come on
2) turn signals do not work but the hazard lights do
3) 4x4 light will come on

Yes

What multifunction switch did you get? New or junkyard?

Used -- but high rated eBay seller

What was wrong with the original connector?

Wires came off --got new connector soldered wires and shrink wrapped.

What codes are now showing up?

There are no codes.

 

[stamp11127]

How well do you understand wiring diagrams and tracing circuits?
The abs is separate from the mfs so you have multiple issues with the electrical systems.

 

[HarveyCat]

How well do you understand wiring diagrams and tracing circuits?

The abs is separate from the mfs so you have multiple issues with the electrical systems.

The ABS and the 4x4 lights always come on and off together -- as does the loss of the turn signals. Out of the blue (mostly after rain or snow) they come on -- then just as suddenly they all go out. I have a mechanic who is really good -- but he thought the GEM must be bad -- I bought an exact one and might try -- but I can force the lights to go off and the blinkers to work by pulling the relay.

I would like to see the wiring diagrams of each -- and see if they share any of the 3 relays I pull out (the three square ones under the dash -- this fixes the issue temporarily

 

[HarveyCat]

I was very wrong about the relay -- now changing the relay DOES NOT solve the issue even temporarily -- But the 3 things do only ever happen together -- and they come and go together -- meaning out of the blue -- the turn signals stop working, the 4x4 light starts flashing, and the ABS light comes on -- and then just as "out of the blue" they all go back to normal.

 

[stamp11127]

Send me your email in a pm and I'll send you the diagrams.

 

[HarveyCat]

Thanks very much -- what do you think is the likely cause? Instrument cluster solder joints? Bad ground?

Could the GEM cause this? I can put back old multifunction switch and check connector again. The diagrams don't show much in common except the instrument cluster and perhaps some ground.

Fuse box under hood has some dirt and sand in it... I put the relays in for towing...

 

[stamp11127]

Check the grounds behind the two front kick panels. What they are attached to should be clean and not rusted.
If those check out ok then I would take a look at the fuse box wiring harness for loose connectors/pins - something obvious.

 

[HarveyCat]

Check the grounds behind the two front kick panels. What they are attached to should be clean and not rusted.
If those check out ok then I would take a look at the fuse box wiring harness for loose connectors/pins - something obvious.

Grounds looked good -- connectors all looked tight -- still waiting for the problem to return to test better connections. Thanks

 

[HarveyCat]

Thanks for all the help in the past -- but it has been a year and nothing has changed. Most times it is fine when it starts up cold -- but once it gets hot it might (or it might not) all happen again -- meaning the ABS light & the 4x4 blinking light both come on and the turn signals stop working -- and they always all happen together and then go away together. I tried changing all the fuses and the relays in both fuse boxes but nothing fixes the issue. I re-sealed my windshield and tightened up the seals on the doors -- I had gotten a bit of water in the rear and around the moonroof at one time. GEm looks good as does fuse box -- but I got a matching GEM (same year, model & features) and also a (sort of matching) matching fuse block that my mechanic will put in for me for $200 -- is this a crazy thing to try?

 

[stamp11127]

Are you using a meter to check the electrical connections when we say to "check the grounds". Visual inspections mean nothing unless you see obvious damage - an example is a bundle of burned wires, no reason to meter them then.

Save your money - tossing parts at a problem is not the way to go. I don't teach that in the class, or here. Now if the member doesn't want to listen to reason and tosses parts, it may be entertainment for a few of us.

If you don't have a meter I can give you recommendations for a decent one.

 

[Bedrck47]

Thanks for all the help in the past -- but it has been a year and nothing has changed.

GEm looks good as does fuse box -- but I got a matching GEM (same year, model & features) and also a (sort of matching) matching fuse block that my mechanic will put in for me for $200 -- is this a crazy thing to try?

Good thing to do Let your mechanic charge you $200.00 to change out the fuse block And your providing a used part which is "sort of matching" My opinion is go ahead and do it all you have to loose is the $200.00 and you most likely won't gain anything.

Up until your most recent post on 2/18/2016 you haven't made any other post since 7/20/2015 That's 7 months that you haven't bothered to do anything to fix your problem or to give any feedback to those that were trying to help you.

 

[stamp11127]

Post picks of the grounds behind both kick panels. That way we know how much rust we are dealing with.

 

[HarveyCat]

Thanks -- at some time in the far past the dealership (only ones who have serviced this 1 owner expedition) -- or perhaps from when it was made in 2002 -- some tech left one of the 2 big connectors very loose on the back of the fuse box.

I was beginning to change out of GEM & the fuse box -- when I found this loose connector -- pretty easy since I had really taken apart the whole bottom of dash... thanks to Stamp11127 for motivating me to tear into it to check the flasher\blower relay block.

Otherwise, since I live in the city and have to work out on the street -- I would have waited for my mechanic to fit me in -- to change the GEM -- and I would never have found this loose giant connector -- thankfully it was closest of the two connectors -- and I had just watched YouTubes on how to change out my fusebox\gem (or as the shop manual calls it -- Central junction box -F3) so I was ready with my 10mm socket. BINGO -- now all is well.

Thanks again Stamp11127 -- great guy!

Oh ..and Bedrck47 why don't you go... Well forget it -- I'm sure you been told this all your life.

 

[Bedrck47]

HarveyCat
I have been told that many times by people that are just like you. You were the one that was willing to pay $200.00 to do what you could have done yourself and finally did do yourself. Had you taken the time to fix it 7 months ago instead of driving it in that condition you would have learned something.

For 7 months you didn't bother and it took me to Pi$$ you off and stamp to motivate you to do what you should have done in the first place.

All I said was for you to spend the $200.00 and waste your money. You were willing to spend that money to have someone tighten a bolt.

You even stated that "GEm looks good as does fuse box" I would assume by that statement that you pulled the gem Because the only way you could say it looked good was to pull it and take the cover off to inspect it. And had you done that you would have had to pull both fuse block and gem as that is the easiest way to get them out. Been there done that.

So your comment to me was un-called for as all I did was agree with you to spend the $200

My comment was to get you to think and I say it like I see it. You didn't bother for 7 months to fix your problem You just kept throwing parts at it.