Engine fan always on plus new oil leak

[Pinky 1352]

Hi,
Newbie here. I'm not sure if this should've been two separate posts or just this one. please let me know if I need to modify.

I recently, about 6 weeks ago, purchased a 2003 XLT Expedition, 4.6L.
The used car dealer changed the valve cover gaskets, the passenger side valve cover since it had a crack by a rear(?) bolt, spark plugs and coils, and trouble-shot the AC system. I was informed that it was the climate control and they changed that out with a used one from the junkyard...but not until after they supposedly played whack-a-mole with other parts. I'm not sure what to believe there but it WAS then working when I picked the car up. They had it for almost 10 days while working on it

Fast forward to about ten days ago and I noticed that the engine fan starts running as soon as I start the car. (It MSAY have been doing this earlier, but I'm half deaf and didn't hear it myself until after I parked under a metal awning).
I haven't been able to find a fan relay, nor an engine temp sensor to check to see if either are the problem.
Where do I start to try and diagnose this problem?

The second issue is a new oil leak. I crawled under the car myself before I bought it and didn't see this current mess, and even had a nearby Meineke do a pre-buy inspection. They only noticed the need to have the valve cover gaskets done.

I have excess oil around the oil filter, and it even looks like a bit of oil near the AC compressor, but worst spot is around the starter. This spot makes it look like the rear main seal is leaking.

So, my question is could the dealer's shop have knocked something(s) lose while doing those valve cover gaskets (which are now dry), or is it possible for the leak around the oil filter (or perhaps it's adapter gasket?) to be bad enough to blow all over the bottom end of the engine that could LOOK LIKE a rear main seal problem

Three different shops are giving me three different scenarios, each fix more expensive than the next.

There are no lemon laws here (Las Vegas), so I'm stuck with this thing.
Can anyone suggest how I might be able to figure this out myself?

It's hard for me to take pics with the little amount of room I have when I slide under the car to look around, so I'm not sure how much these will help.

I appreciate any insight to either of these problems.

Thanks!

 

[Hamfisted]

Can you spray some degreaser under there and hose it off to clean off the area ? It's pretty hard to pin point a leak when the whole area is covered in oil ....

 

[00XTL]

It’s hard to tell in the pictures but just remember that oil will only leak down and never up. So follow the oil upward till its dry then come down to the nearest seal. I also know that the far back corner of the valve cover gasket can be trick to seat and from the what i read the dealership you bought it from doesn’t sound like the best, so I’d say that its possible that the valve cover could still be leaking. Also another note is that rear main seals dont normally leak onto the start but instead where the trans and engine bolt up.

As for the engine fan. It’s not an electronic fan so it’s always going to be spinning. The fan will never stop as its connected to the water pump. Now if its stuck on high meaning its so loud you cant have a normal conversation next to your car with out yelling thats different.

 

[Pinky 1352]

Sorry for the delay in my reply. It's been one of those weeks.

I found a neighbor who has one of those diagnostic cameras and he took a look yesterday and he is also stumped. He has a professional mechanic friend coming to take a look today.

From what we've both seen previously, the oil filter adapter gasket is definitely leaking, but we're still unsure if it's the ONLY problem, as it doesn't make sense that the wires off the starter are also wet since they're diagonally across the engine from the oil filter adapter leak.
Hopefully the new guy can figure it out.

As for the fan 00XTL...I'm curious. How does the engine easily get up to operating temp if the fan comes on as soon as the car is started?

And, no, it's not excessively loud, it just seemed louder than I was expecting because it resonates while parked under that carport awning.
This is the newest used car I've owned, so the concept is foreign to me.

 

[BlackCoffee]

A couple of things. With the amount of oil you have, it probably has been leaking for years. Some of your build up is not from just the last six weeks.

Oil filter adaptor. You can replace the oil filter adaptor gasket, but be ready for a job. Coolant also flows through the adaptor and you will need to remove the power steering pump which is a real pain. You need to pull the pulley and then get the pump out. Putting the pulley back on, doesn't always go smoothly.

As for the fan, the fan attaches to the front of the water pump and pulley with the fan clutch. Most after market clutches are loud. The fan will never stop spinning. It sounds like someone replaced the fan clutch. As for getting up to temperature, that is controlled by the thermostat, not the fan.

 

[Pinky 1352]

BlackCoffee,
Thanks for the reply! I learned something new today about the fan.

And yes, at least the oil filter gasket has been leaking for a while because the top of it has old gunked up greasy residue on it.
Why Meineke didn't catch that when I had them do the pre-buy inspection is beyond me!


While true that it didn't seem to be actively leaking at the time of purchase, the old stuff should've been visible to them.



I won't be doing the gasket replacement myself.
I'll either have the mechanic that will be looking at the car later today do it or take it into a shop.

I just wanted to get a straight answer to the extent of any/all leaks before I sunk $ into it.


Are you sure that on the '03 4.6L that the power steering pump has to be removed?
I was able to find a youtube video for a 5.4 and the person was able to do it without going that far?

 

[BlackCoffee]

Are you sure that on the '03 4.6L that the power steering pump has to be removed?
I was able to find a youtube video for a 5.4 and the person was able to do it without going that far?

Do you have a 4x4 or 2x4? There is more room to work underneath if the front axle is not in the way. It is hard to get all the bolts out if you don't remove the power steering pump, but it can be done. When you get the adapter off, sometimes it is a little corroded and needs have the surface cleaned up with a block and paper. Good luck.

 

[Pinky 1352]

BlackCoffee,
It's a 2003 XLT 2WD.

We have a consensus now that the oil filter adapter gasket IS leaking.

Not so much of an answer about the rear of the engine leak.


The neighbor's mechanic said it's NOT the rear main seal, that it's something higher up than that.
But because of WHERE the leak is no one can manage to see where exactly it's coming from.
He thinks *maybe* that it's the valley pan (if this engine has one?) M, or on a really long shot the head gasket?
Or maybe the inner rear corner of the valve cover, even though the dealer's mechanic swapped the old one out and did the valve cover gaskets already.

Does anyone know of there's possibly ANYTHING else that can leak up there in that particular spot?
The guy today wasn't all that familiar with these Expedition engines, and since we can't SEE or get hands up there, and neighbor's snake camera is B&W low quality, were all still at a loss.



Perhaps someone can point me to a good quality photo or drawing of the rear of this engine?

 

[Pinky 1352]

I'm also unfamiliar with this engine (not that I'm really familiar with any, lol) but I'm looking for clues as to what else could be back there.

I found this pic of the correct engine for sale on ebay.

Can anyone tell me what goes into that red plug ?

 

[BlackCoffee]

It's a 2003 XLT 2WD.

We have a consensus now that the oil filter adapter gasket IS leaking.

Not so much of an answer about the rear of the engine leak.

He thinks *maybe* that it's the valley pan (if this engine has one?) M, or on a really long shot the head gasket?
Or maybe the inner rear corner of the valve cover, even though the dealer's mechanic swapped the old one out and did the valve cover gaskets already.

Perhaps someone can point me to a good quality photo or drawing of the rear of this engine?

This engine does not have a valley pan similar to an push rod engine. Under the engine is the valley between the cylinders, but no place for oil to leak. I doubt it is a head gasket, more likely the valve cover gasket or the oil pan. If the head gasket were leaking that much oil, you would also be losing coolant and probably have some going into the cylinder. You can pull the access panel on the front of the transmission, where you get to the torque convertor nuts, and see what's inside the bell housing. That should give you an idea if it is the main rear seal or not.

The red plug is you cam position sensor.

 

[Pinky 1352]

BlackCoffee, yesterday's mechanic DID pull the transmission access panel. While there was oil dripping off the very bottom of it before he pulled it, he said the back of it was dry and that added to his opinion that it wasn't the main seal itself but something higher up that's leaking.
(When you pull off that rubber plug on the bottom of that housing it's also dry inside)

At this point then I'm going to guess that the dealer's mechanic didn't quite get the valve cover replacement correct, and hope it's not head gaskets.
This makes the most sense anyway, because I'd swear it wasn't leaking like this when I initially bought the car.

I've ordered myself a snake camera that connects to my phone from Amazon. I'm hoping the picture quality will be good enough for me to get some sort of better look at the upper rear of the engine.

I guess I'll post again by Thursday once I determine if I can get a good look back there.

Thanks again!