Expy won't crank, buzzing sound

[ELVATO]

Copy and paste from my post at F150online:

I go to try to start the Expy, and as soon as the key goes into the ON position, a high pitched buzzing starts. It seems to be coming from somewhere in the passenger kick space.

All the lights on the dash turn on (as in a normal start up), and there is enough power to turn it on (12.3 V).

As soon as I turn the key into the START position, all the dash goes dead, the starter doesn't even crank. I don't think the starter is even clicking. But, there is still power, at least to the 12V accessory, the X50 stayed on.

I'll try to get a video of it.

TIA.

EDIT:

Just went back to check, and the dash doesn't go dead. The odometer is the one that goes dead when I try to crank. The bad thing is that in place of an odometer reading, there are just lines/hyphens. That sounds like that computer? If it matters, it rained last night.

 

[AvroAero]

Does the buzzing sound like a relay?

 

[ELVATO]

Don't know what that sounds like

It sounds kinnda like when a fly is buzzing against a window, or an angry bee.

My camera is dead, so I'll try to get a sound recording.

 

[ELVATO]

This is what it sounds like:

http://blip.tv/file/764902

Hopefully it plays.

This was taken with the recorder in the passenger foot area.

 

[mohs00]

would you be able to get a scanner on it and see if there are any codes stored?

 

[AvroAero]

Wow that is pretty damn weird. Maybe a bee is in there sitting on some wires and your ******* it off when you try to start lol. otherwise I'd be stumped. If you can try ripping apart the dash and pinpointing it deeper. Is it louder in the cab or the engine compartment?

 

[ELVATO]

Seems louder in the cab. I've never taken apart the dash

As for codes, lemme see if I can get something.

Tried connecting the data logger, but it says "Unable to connect to PCM" Crap, now I'm afraid my PCM is fried or something.

 

[mustangswan]

Have you tried to see if there any signs of water in the gem/fuse panel under the dash. It is very common to have the windshield leak and get water into those two things. Try to remove the 2 main connectors from the back of the fuse/ power box and look into the connector hole in the back with a light and a mirror(it is a 10mm bolt head). I have changed 50-100 of these for all different types of problems. (windows inop, door locks inop, no start) all caused by water. We get a lot of rain in Seattle. Hope this is helpful.

 

[JUST4FUN]

Here is anotherthing you can lookat is the e/brake rusty looking is the pading under the carpet wet

 

[AvroAero]

If water gets in there you just replace it and it goes away? I'd think that you'd short something out and damage something most likely.

Also taking the dash apart isn't that hard. It may be a bit without any guide doing it on a new car. Ussually its layered so you just find the top layer and pull it off ussually. On 1st gen you take out the trim around the radio which gives you access to bolts. If you get stumped sometimes you have to pull the radio to get access to bolts to pull the first section.

 

[ELVATO]

Well, I found out what it was.

Apparently, one of the relays, more specifically the PCM relay, had burnt/melted plastic around one of the center prongs.

We went out, bought another one, put it in, and it started right up.

I'm hoping that this is just a one time deal, though I'm always worried when anything electrical burns.

I didn't notice any water around the fuse area, but I'll keep an eye out for it.

Thanks for any help. Now to tackle the rear end.

 

[AvroAero]

I work around my fair share of relays and have never heard a chatter like that. lol, good to know.

 

[ELVATO]

I don't know, it was weird. Even when the relay was pulled out, it would still chatter, but it would stop when it put it back in (the burnt one.) As in, if the relay was out, and you turned the key, it would still make the sound.

Still, he figured we might as well replace it since it looked burnt, and it worked.

So maybe the chatter was something else? Maybe a warning buzzer? But at least it starts now

 

[AvroAero]

Maybe it was another relay chattering because that one wasn't making.

 

[ELVATO]

Sorry to bring this up, but it happened again. This time, though I know why it did what it did.

According to this, the early build 2003 Expys had a bad Central Junction Box (the fuse box) design, causing the PCM relay to burn out, among other things.

I took my box apart (before I had found the above link) since the Expy just shut off on me one day while driving, and the buzzing started. Replacing the PCM relay didn't do anything. Had to get it towed to my place.

This is what I found when I opened up the box:
Bottom


Top - the dark, horizontal


Here's a little diagram I made
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l183/Jjokin3much/PCMrelay.jpg

It is prong number 5 that is burnt out in the board.

According to the link, I need to order part 3L1Z-14A068-AA (for vehicles before build date 2/3/03). You need part number 3L7Z-14A068-AB for vehicles after 2/3/03.

I'll hopefully be replacing it tomorrow, so hopefully it'll start. *fingers crossed*

 

[ELVATO]

Got the part in, and it starts Great success...

 

[alexwasserman]

Still working?

Hi,

Is it still working?

The exact same thing just happened to me.

I've actually had the PCM and the fusebox replaced before, so I'm wondering if the box was replaced with the wrong build-date version. For my VIN, I'm pretty sure I need the later model of the fuse box.

Just curious to do check that this really did resolve the issue for you. If so, I'll order it and replace it.

Also, where did you order it from?

Thanks,

Alex

 

[ELVATO]

Yea, it's still working. I would have bought it at tascaparts.com since they had the cheapest price, but I couldn't wait on the shipping time, so I ended up looking around for dealers in the state. Found one that was mderately priced, and talked him down to 235 when I told him I had found it cheaper at another dealer. I had my friend pick it up and I installed it later that day.

MSRP is around 300 dollars, while tasca has it for around 200 + shipping. I think their shipping is 10-15 for standard shipping. I think they're located in Rhode Island, so factor that in to shipping time.

Here's their link: http://www.tascaparts.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=213668

Enter the part numbers in the "OEM Automotive parts" and choose Ford. I'm sure you could also call them, give them your VIN, just to be sure they're giving you the right one.

BTW, you wouldn't happen to have the part number of the CJB (fuse box) they put in yours, would you? Does it still burn out the PCM relay?

 

[alexwasserman]

Great news.

I just pulled it out and it's 3L1Z-14A067-AA. One of my neighbours pulled it from a truck in his cousin's junkyard, and it was free, so I'm not complaining about the couple of months use I got from it at 0 cost.

Also, it turns out that when the broken one before that was put in one of the connections on the underside from put in wrongly and broke it, so really there were two original breaks. That time it needed a new PCM as well.

This time I'm hoping it's just the fuse box itself, and not the PCM too.

If I look on the Ford Motorparts site for my VIN and the CJB it says I need a 14A068, but doesn't specify whether it is the -AA, or -AB version. Ford officially has it for $293, but I've seen as low as $250.

Any ideas how I can find the build date?

 

[ELVATO]

If you look on the door sticker, near the "top" of the sticker, it should say a date. Mine says 02/02, so mine was a really early model.