First drive 2018 Navigator Reserve and Black Label

[JCP2018]

I drove a Platinum Max a few weeks ago, and an L Reserve yesterday; night and day difference between the Ford and Lincoln. In my opinion this is the first Navigator that is actually worth the (admittedly not drastically higher) premium; Ford is actually on the right track with this one. The interior is gorgeous, especially in the Black Label trims (can't find the themes online now, but saw 3 of them at a local dealer. My favorite was the blue, which reminded me of the Nautica Villager from the 90's), though I'm not sure the Black label is worth the extra $13k over the Reserve, which gives you pretty much the same experience. It was much quieter than the Expy, rode better with the air suspension, and just looked worth the premium (to me the Expy looks too much like the 150 inside; the Navi is incredible). I also loved the outside details. The Navi is a better value overall.

I believe Ford needs to drastically reduce the price of the Expy; it's not as nice as the Navi and costs nearly as much. I know it's apples to oranges, but you can get any Platinum F series for what the Expy costs (much less with the 150) and have just as nice of a vehicle, at least in the front row.

I thought the price was crazy until I started cross shopping other premium brands. To get anything reasonably close to the Navi in, say, a Mercedes would be the GLS; a zero option base model starts at the same price as a Reserve, which is way more comfortable and feature laden. BMW is worse. To option that GLS even remotely close and you're way past the Black Label, so Ford has hit upon something here. The QX and LX may be close in size and price, but no where near as nice IMO.

This is now my lottery dream car.

 

[JCP2018]

Until that lottery train rolls into the station we are still going to look at leasing a Lincoln; again, they are impressive these days, and getting better. Since we have the Expy for her I may look at leasing either an MKC or an MKZ, both Reserve models.

 

[Trainmaster]

WTF is a "Reserve Model"?

When comparing price, remember that the money is in the metal. The leather and plastic costs very little to Ford; it's a huge mark-up and profit item. That's why even the lower trim models fetch so much cash.

Read an interesting statistic yesterday about lottery ticket buyers:

Lottery spending for those living below poverty level: $ 802/year
Lottery spending by those leasing new automobiles: $ 680/year
Lottery spending by those purchasing new automobiles: $ 29/year

Just imagine what "reserve model" lesees spend?

 

[dlcorbett]

Thenav actually doesnt have air suspension. I drove a select and there is a more airy feel than the expy. I did like the seats more in my expy but i didnt take the time to set the seats either. My next truck is going to be a navi reserve.

 

[JExpedition07]

Trainmaster your half forgetting something. The manufacturers don’t want to sell more vehicles, yes you read that right. Look at the expy, they sell Way less now than what they used to with the new generation. Sure they make more per unit but when you aren’t selling any volume your losing. This trend isn’t just ford. They want you to lease, because that way you pay for 2-3 years and then they get to sell it again! I would personally never lease a vehicle- ever. I buy them then run them into the ground to the point they can’t drive anymore..... I like owning my stuff. But Ford and others want you to pay $500-$700 monthly to lease your Navigator for three years, then they’ll sell it for $65,000 on the backside to the next sucker..... notice how attractive they make the lease deals, then tell a conventional out right buyer like us $900-$1,200 monthly to do that.....it’s all a game to push leasing so they make money twice.

 

[Trainmaster]

Oh yes, J. The folks around me who lease this stuff make lots of money and have little to show for it. They are making the banks rich.

Obviously I think like you do. I keep these things for 20 years and consider them like any other tool. But then I had decided early in life that I wanted to retire early, so I had to save my money.

The high end stuff is nice, alright, but I'll take it for a quarter of the price after ten years. A few grand cleaning it up and it's good for us for another decade. Doing this, I've kept my car costs to about $1500/year and always drove good, dependable high end and low mileage trucks. The rest of the money got invested.

 

[John Christopher]

Trainmaster your half forgetting something. The manufacturers don’t want to sell more vehicles, yes you read that right. Look at the expy, they sell Way less now than what they used to with the new generation. Sure they make more per unit but when you aren’t selling any volume your losing. This trend isn’t just ford. They want you to lease, because that way you pay for 2-3 years and then they get to sell it again! I would personally never lease a vehicle- ever. I buy them then run them into the ground to the point they can’t drive anymore..... I like owning my stuff. But Ford and others want you to pay $500-$600 monthly to lease your Navigator for three years, then they’ll sell it for $65,000 on the backside to the next sucker..... notice how attractive they make the lease deals, then tell a conventional out right buyer like us $800-$1,100 monthly to do that.....it’s all a game to push leasing so they make money twice.

I never thought about that but you make a lot of sense. The prices of these vehicles are out of sight. Weather it's the Nav, Yukon, Escalade or Tahoe, their all nuts.

 

[Adieu]

I drove a Platinum Max a few weeks ago, and an L Reserve yesterday; night and day difference between the Ford and Lincoln. In my opinion this is the first Navigator that is actually worth the (admittedly not drastically higher) premium; Ford is actually on the right track with this one. The interior is gorgeous, especially in the Black Label trims (can't find the themes online now, but saw 3 of them at a local dealer. My favorite was the blue, which reminded me of the Nautica Villager from the 90's), though I'm not sure the Black label is worth the extra $13k over the Reserve, which gives you pretty much the same experience. It was much quieter than the Expy, rode better with the air suspension, and just looked worth the premium (to me the Expy looks too much like the 150 inside; the Navi is incredible). I also loved the outside details. The Navi is a better value overall.

I believe Ford needs to drastically reduce the price of the Expy; it's not as nice as the Navi and costs nearly as much. I know it's apples to oranges, but you can get any Platinum F series for what the Expy costs (much less with the 150) and have just as nice of a vehicle, at least in the front row.

I thought the price was crazy until I started cross shopping other premium brands. To get anything reasonably close to the Navi in, say, a Mercedes would be the GLS; a zero option base model starts at the same price as a Reserve, which is way more comfortable and feature laden. BMW is worse. To option that GLS even remotely close and you're way past the Black Label, so Ford has hit upon something here. The QX and LX may be close in size and price, but no where near as nice IMO.

This is now my lottery dream car.

Merc GLS is noticeably smaller than a Gator... BMW X5 is more like an Explorer in size, actually smaller probably.

QX60 is a smaller van with some trucklike styling

The Nissan/Infinitis based on the overseas market Nissan Patrol are fullsize but only offer a product to compete with the SWB Ford/Lincolns...and are really dated designs

The only rivals in the same class are the big GM trucks

 

[dlcorbett]

I always thought the 2nd gen navs were nice, and the refreshed 05 n 06 models were gorgeous to me. I think the sec and 4th gen navs are amazing mainly and only let down by their trucky platform. Theres only so much to improve on with a truck frame. The other luxury trucks get aroubd this by sacrificing some capability but try and smooth out ride handling abd performance.

 

[jeff kushner]

I'm sure that the new Nav's are very, very nice but financially, a private owner leasing is just paying for someone else's ride. I know the reason is so people can drive what they cannot afford to but but that in itself, should be a clue.

In 18 more months, my '17 will be mine. 42 months total @ 1.9%..seemed pretty clean to me.

Each to his or her own though so good luck!!

jeff

 

[dlcorbett]

For me, lease to own seemed the most attractive, lease at a lower payment, then buy at a lower payment. Owning and loving my truck just increased my love(and want) for the navi.

 

[Dorzak]

I tend to buy used vehicles. I have never leased. It seems like renting - you are paying somebody else and no equity in it. Even depreciation there is usually some equity left in a vehicle. Once paid off, I keep driving them as long as possible. As recent as low mileage as possible. Even low mileage I have them checked out by brother who is a mechanic. Only bought new once, and only because it was a really good price. It had sat for 6 months on the lot. It was a Jeep Patriot which should be a bargain vehicle. It wad the High Altitude edition trim which is a special edition of the middle trim level. That put its price up near where the Jeep Grand Cherokee started at the time. For a salesman $20-50 more per month for a Grand Cherokee was probably a good deal. It was on the lot from November, 2017 to May, 2018. It was one of the front page of the Memorial Day ads. Marked down from $29,999 to $16999. When I drove off I actually had equity compared to the Kelly Blue Book (checked myself, not the dealer).

 

[dlcorbett]

I didnt want used 18 amd even if i did, it woulf be the same priced that i leased off of. But if the expy naver changed, i wouldve looked for a used one as well. The way these new vehicles are updated and the price of entry has damn near doubled, leasing for a new new car was a smart decision for me. It lowers the payment amount since your not paying for the financing, my down payment wouldn't be as high to get to the payment i want, if i want the car after leasing, i can buy it at a smaller clip and bypass the depreciation hit or give it back(if i dnt like it, im not gonna put the miles on it to get the fees). Also, i dnt own the car until its paid, so either way i wont own the car. Theres no wrong way to purchase the car, just depends on ur needs, finances, long term goals and priorties.

 

[G213]

This morning I was getting an oil change and I spent some time with an '18 Navigator Black Label with the Destination theme. There are three themes you can choose from with a new Navigator which dictate the primary colors of the interior: Yacht Club (Blue), Destination (Burgundy) and Chalet (Cream).

Comparing to my '16 Expy Platinum (which I love dearly), the interior of the Navigator is on a completely different level. Lincoln definitely went for the modern ultra-luxury feel, much like GM did with the Escalade.

Frankly, I didn't like the rim design, but they fit the overall theme well. I grabbed the front grille expecting it to be made of plastic and have some minor play (much like plastic frome); however I was surprised that the grille is either made of metal or reinforced plastic, because it had no play and felt solid. As I continued to explore, I focused on finding minor details where "refined" is Lincoln's intended impression.

So while the trucks may be cut from the same cloth, it's the attitude between the two which are night and day different.

Starting with the names...

"Expedition" is an action word, a "do-it" word. Expedition says adventure, trail-blazing, pack leading, boldness, going somewhere excluded and difficult.

"Navigator" is a directing word, a planning word. Navigator makes the decision of we are going here. I will direct you where to go, but you do the heavy lifting. The Navigator says I'm the planner, the overseeer, the ultimately responsible, but I'm not the deck hand or the line man.

Honestly, this is why I chose my Expy and would choose the Expy Platinum over the Navigator, even today. Despite the refinements on a Platinum, it's still an Expedition. To me, this says capable, strong, tough, ballsy. The Expy still gives you a true 2 speed 4x4 transfer case, whereas the Navigator does not. Even with '20s, the Expedition tires still have a good amount of sidewall meat on them; pointing to the tough-duty roots of the Expedition. Even while I stop at a light sitting on cooled red-cherry leather shadowed by an open moon roof, illuminated by LEDs; I can still pull up next to an LEO Expedition Interceptor with a winch, steel rims, Kevlar tires and bull bar.

On the other hand, a Navigator is all about screaming luxury. No expense spared, the Navigator is the voice for demand of the most comfortable and fashionable. The Navigator says: I don't need a true 2 speed 4x4 transfer case, because I helicopter to destinations off the beaten path. I need 22's with low profile tires because that's what grabs the attention at the valet. The suspension should be about comfort, not capacity, because I don't use my truck for heavy duty tasks. But with those qualities, comes the sacrifice of the tough, off-roady, business feel of the Expedition.

I don't mean any of this in a sarcastic way and I'm not shunning the Navigator at all; it's just built for a different purpose.

They have certainly done wonders to differentiate the Navigator from the Expy since the very first model; a re-badging exercise with cooled seats and an Alpine. On that front, I was incredibly impressed.

 

[Trainmaster]

G213, you've got to be in the marketing business. What's your line? Very refined observations, I must say, and probably much of what Ford Motor Company intended.

 

[G213]

G213, you've got to be in the marketing business. What's your line? Very refined observations, I must say, and probably much of what Ford Motor Company intended.

Thanks! Believe it or not, I work in technology with a B.S. in Business Administration. Tech has always been a hobby of mine, so I leverage some technology certs with my degree to build that bridge between your tech team and your operations/management teams.

Marketing has always been a hobby of mine; I guess my attention to detail and my interest in communicating drive it. I find it fascinating to decode the messages behind why companies do what they do, particularly in the auto industry. You can frame a consumer's juxtaposition with just a phrase or picture; invoking feelings and judgements, by simply knowing your audience.

 

[Trainmaster]

Pick up the Wall Street Journal. Lots of insight for a guy like you. Most people don't see the forest from the trees and are lead around like beagles.

 

[JExpedition07]

I like G213s analysis. There’s a lot of differing consumer mindsets to grab. I’ve always admired the King Ranch trim......real saddle leather, specialty rims that aren’t too big, two tone exterior. Pretty much says “I’ve worked to the top, but I’m still not afraid to get dirty”. It’s got a road presence matched by no other in fords lineup. When I look at a ford SUV or truck, to know the trim I generally have to look for a badge. Not the KR, instantly recognizeable and demands your attention, king of the road....I guess hence the name “King Ranch”. It’s top dog, demands your attention, but will be found working alongside you all day long with the XL trims.

Speaking of XL trims, the owner of the marina I keep my boat at has an XL F-350 dually. It’s a blue with black grille, best looking base truck I’ve ever seen. Doesn’t look cheap at all.......he likes the bare bones models because he works them into the ground and likes simplicity. The higher trims don’t appeal to him. Yet another different mindset.

 

[Trainmaster]

I like that marina owner's thinking. My truck is just that - a truck - and I usually buy an SSV or XL. I want it to do a job, not be plagued with broken gadgets and not detract me from what I do. I'm also tight with a buck and spend as little as possible on consumables and as much as I can on investments.

I worked many years as a railroad trainmaster, a first resposder to accidents, derailments and pedestrian fatalities. My partner for a decade was a bare-bones Expedition SSV and we got along so well I took it with me into retirement.