Front tires rumbling in turns?

[Guest]

"Houston, we have a problem"! Finally got fed up and took the 03 Expy to a local dealer for some diagnostics on the problem. Rode the giant parking lot with the tech manager. He turned the wheel both directions hard and heard the problem. Then he slowed grabbed the brake and gave it gas in a slow turn. It rumbled and crunched hard. He did some tech bulletin work and it turns out some of the newer Expys have a front clutch problem that fails to disengage all the way freeing up 2H or two wheel drive mode. He thought at first it was a lack of fluid, but Ford recommends dropping the front drive and installing newly designed clutch plates. Expensive problem, thank god for warranty. 5 hours labor plus parts....

 

[rwinch]

Whoa there...better ask some questions just to make sure you are getting the right answers. I do not believe that there is a clutch in the front diff (commonly known as a "limited slip" that is common in the rear diff)...this would not be a good thing while steering!!!

The clutch that the service manager is talking about is probably in the transfer case, and it is supposed to only operate in A4WD.

Maybe I am wrong...I do not have the '03, but 4x4 systems are not really all that much different, except on how sophistacted the transfer case is.

Anyway, I hope they fix it. I just have had too many "stories" told to me that I knew damn well were just just made up bulls@#t

 

[Guest]

rwinch,
with my limited knowledge of transfer cases, i may not be describing the fix correctly. I'll update this post after surgery.

 

[Guest]

once again, i tell you its the clutches in the rear axle, i just quit working at a ford dealership, but i worked there 9 years and am still a ford master technician.

 

[rwinch]

kidtriton,

obviously you have the experience, but how will the rear limited slip cause this?

If tscholl is correct, and the front tires are "crunching" during a hard turn, then I agree that there can be an issue with the engagement to the front diff thru the transfer case.

**As most 4x4 owners know, driving a 4x4 on dry pavement while turning causes issues (mostly bad) due to the fact that ALL wheels are now turning at different speeds due to the different turning radius they are experiencing. The rear wheels usually do not have that much of a turning difference since they are locked in a forward facing aspect, but the front wheels can't compensate enough through the front differential (which is an open type) when locked into the same speed input through the center diff as the rear diff. What happens is that EITHER 1) the inner tire is made to slip on the dry pavement (it wants to turns at roughly the same speed as the outer tire, which wants to turn faster because of the larger turning radius) or 2) hop & spin as the inner half shaft gets wound up, and then releases its energy (it acts like a torsion spring, which is also the cause for torque steering on front wheel drive cars). It all depends on how well the tires grip on the dry pavement. In any case, bad noises will be percieved from the front end**

The cure that is used for ALL-TIME 4WD vehicles is to use a Viscous Center Coupling (basically a torque converter type unit) which will allow slip between drive shafts between the front and rear diffs.

Whew...I know that was long, but I am surprised at how many people really don't know this process.

In any case, if the trnsfer case is not releasing its clutch mechanism, then I can see tire noise issues from the fron end.

Also, one other thought. On my '98 Exby, I can make a crunching noise when I turn hard and try to accelerate a little too fast. THe Exby's actually have quite a tight turning radius available for such a large truck, and the truck really wants to "push" forward, slipping quite a bit on the front tires, which are trying to turn the truck. Try see if the noise goes away while driving at different speeds (slower).

 

[Guest]

Just as JayP's mentioned above, and mine, are both 2wd models. And of course we have no front axle or transfer case. So the reason we hear and feel this scrub in the front end is partly due to the fact that the posi clutches in the rear end dont want to give any when turning, therefore causing the vehicle to want to push straight ahead, and causing the turned front wheels to want to skid arcoss the ground. Well the weight of the vehicle will eventually make the rear end clutches fianlly give some and slip, but in our case its a jerky, vibrating slip, not as designed. This is mistakenly felt in the front of the vehicle, but the proof that its the rear end is when you pull one in the shop doing it, replace the whole rear axle center section, and then pull out and its fixed (for a little while anyway). Also note that on the 4wd ones, there are no clutches in the front axle. The problem with the shudder in the transfer case of the older 4wd's was fixed by a drain and refill, and reprogramming the GEM module to handle the ball-ramp clutch engagement differently. As of the time i quit the ford dealership, there was nothing regarding a 03 up with the transfer case. It has all been related to the rear axle. There is a issue with the front axle, but its a noise at road speed, not in a parking lot.

 

[Guest]

I notice it- the wife hasn't said anything. I suggest keeping up with blueovalnews.com for a silent recall. I'll call the dealer and let them know there is a problem but it might take a year of complaint from owners before FORD does anything.

 

[Guest]

Had the dealer warranty service done on my Expy today. Here is the exact labor write up on the invoice...
____________________________________________________________

Inspect 4 wheel drive operation. When in 2 high customer stated crunching noise in front end.
TSB 03-19-08
SOP
TSB# 03-19-08
Test drove vehicle. Verified concern. Performed NVH Diag.
Found chatter in rear differential. Check oasis.
Found TSB 03-19-08
R&I Diff. & replaced clutches per TSB w/o air suspension.
Retested......
_____________________________________________________________
I drove my Expy home and sure enough, the chatter was GONE and the truck turned very smoothly!!!! Thank you to all who replied to my original post. Your help gave me the ammo I needed at the dealer.

 

[Guest]

I am not exactly sure of what the problem is...especially since someone said that their 2WD was doing the same thing. I do know that I have sold quite a few rear differentials for Explorers and Expeditions here lately. The problem seems to lie between that steel ring gear and pinion and the aluminum housing. In my experience if the rear axle is defective or low in friction modifier the axle will make a chattering noise when you make a turn. If you catch is soon the friction modifier will usually take care of the problem. We have not had any problems with transfer cases up to this point. I will try to remember to speak with th shop foreman tomorrow and see if he has ran into any problems.

 

[Guest]

Just have to jump on this one seeing I recently traded my '98EB 4X4 for a 2003 XLT 4X4 with 17K miles on it.

I've had this truck for 7 days and after putting a few hundred miles on it this weekend I have discovered it has some strange things going on in the drivetrain that has me concerned. I've poked around on this website as well as the "www.ford-trucks.com" site and found others with similar issues.

This truck has the 3.73 LS diff and I think I have a couple of things going on here...I even sat in the back of the truck while my wife drove to help me confirm where the problems are coming from.

REAR END - (In 2H, AWD, 4H) Brief rumbling/vibration from the rear end when accelerating and turning onto the street. Only feel it for a second or so and only happens when TURNING and accelerating. Does nothing if it's a straight acceleration from a light. Assuming this is the clutch issue in the LS diff mentioned above.

FRONT END - In 2H when accelerating from a stop there is a whine that is DEFINATELY coming from the front end. As you increase speed, the whine increases in pitch all the way up to the point where road noise/wind noise cancels it out (60-70mph).
When engaging AWD or 4H the whine stops as soon as the hubs click in. When dis-engaging from AWD or 4H back to 2H the whine comes back as soon as the hubs dis-engage. For this reason, it's clear to me this has something to do with engagement/dis-engagement of hubs when in 2H.
Along with this is something I think is related - when pulling out of a parking spot and turning the wheel hard right or hard left, SOMETIMES, there is a LOUD grinding noise that you can plainly hear and feel through the steering wheel. Imagine taking a broomstick and driving it into your rotating fan...it's that loud. I confirmed it's not a tire rubbing on something. I believe it's related to the hubs not fully dis-engaging. This does not always occur but it's happened in 2H and AWD driving forward or backing out.

Dropping truck off tomorrow to see what they come up with. I'll let you know what happens.