"Electronic Limited Slip Differential Reduced Torque" - Warning message. Used my Spare, msg now comes on periodically after replacing rear tires.

[Bo Simmons]

I could use some help understanding this and ways to get the proper service done before we drive 30 hours to Colorado to use this 4X4.

We have a 2020 Expy with F4 (4x4 options). has 23,488 miles, driven in used in 2H mode 99.9% of the time and driven in Georgia on mild city and highway roads, zero off-roading to date.

We had a nail in the sidewall on a rear tire. The tires had plenty of treads left but I decided to buy 2 matching new rear tires at 23K miles so they were better matched. The tires took 1 day to arrive so they put on my Spare which was a full-sized matching Michelin tire. That night driving home in a light drizzle, the warning 1st came on. Said ""Electronic Limited Slip Differential Reduced Torque" and had a place to click Ok. I clicked ok and message went away till I drove it again then it ceased coming on for a few short drives. I got the 2 new Michelin Defender LTX M/s put on the next day and later that evening, the warning message came on again. It now comes on occasionally (50% of the time) at low speeds, often under 45mph, and even on dry pavement. The dealer here in Savannah is a nightmare - 2 weeks to get a diagnostic appointment and 2-5 days there in the shop to diagnose the issue ( total joke for service but my only warranty choice) - but they are sending a mobile service to try and pull codes to see if it is a wheel speed sensor going/ gone bad.

So, to recap this started when using the spare and continued when we replaced both rear tires with similar Michilen 275-65-18 Defender LTX M/s tires which I've heard shouldn't matter. The original tires were. Michelin Primacy XC and there are still 2 matched on the front.

I could use help or advice as I've see dealers having trouble with ELSD messages. I've reviewed other posts and read deep into this one https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/2022-check-elsd-service-vehicle-soon.52620/ which contained this info below.

Electronic Limited Slip Differential Reduced Torque
Displays if the electronically limited-slip differential has limited functionality. This could be due to an undersized spare tire or caused by the system overheating. If you have an undersized spare tire installed, replace the spare tire with a full-sized tire as soon as possible. If you do not have an undersized spare tire installed, the vehicle has reduced functionality. Have your vehicle checked as soon as possible.

 

[LokiWolf]

Most likely something related to the Wheel speed sensors. Most likely something got damaged, disconnected, or loose when swapping the wheels around. Got any codes? Have a scanner? Got an Advance nearby that can use more than the 19.95 basic scanner and pull OEM specific codes?

 

[TheDoug]

I agree something else had to have happened during the wheel swap.

I had flat on 3 hour trip to Houston and put the full size spare on rear, drove remaining 2 hours and never got that message. And continued to drive around town on it for 2 days.

 

[GlennSullivan]

The front Primacy and the rear Defenders in the stated 275-65-18 size both show as 32.1 OD and 648 revs per mile so the difference in model should not trigger a rotational speed error.

I would agree with above comments that something happened to either one of the wheel speed sensors, or the cable leading to same. Possibly a loose connector, causing the intermittent error.

 

[duneslider]

One more for something else is wrong. I have used the spare tire WAY more than most and that includes towing for several hours (hundreds of miles) with the spare on the rear in bad weather (mountain snow). I have also used the spare offroad, in 4x4, etc.

Honestly, that seems somewhat cool they will send someone out to check codes and do a little onsite diagnostics.

 

[Bo Simmons]

Hi All - thanks for the great feedback. They came Wed before Thanksgiving and the guy couldn't log in to Ford's servers so he said. He's coming back Tuesday morning. All he does is a mobile service from the Dealer to plug in and pull a code. Hopefully, the speed sensor for the wheel that got pulled 1st (and got the spare), is just unhappy and needs a replacement, but it sounds like it will be a service visit either way.

I'll close out this post when I get it resolved or give some updates. Fingers crossed!

 

[Bo Simmons]

Hi all,

the mobile guy came and got nothing reported. We drove around and tried to trip the warning - no luck. he read some manual info he had access to and pointed to tire pressure and there has been a 1-3 lbs difference at times. I think one of the fronts has a micro slow leak.

After much effort to get to the dealership to try to solve this, I'm here today. There is NOTHING reported in the data - the guy showed me. they are checking it more but the early theory is the same - this is differences in the tires and a few lbs pressure ( never low pressure) .. That is Brand new Michliens on the rear ( that are Michelin Defender LTX M/S, not the Primacy Mich that came on the SUV) and the 2 Primacys on the front with only 20K miles. 1 of the front's has been lower like 33/34 lbs when the others were at 38.

does this sound possible @LokiWolf

 

[duneslider]

I think that is BS too. I have had more than my fair share of leaks and flat tires since owning the expedition and I have had tires much lower than 4-5psi low and have had no issues like this. I really think this is a BS diagnosis. However, if there aren't any active codes present when they are looking at it, I can certainly understand that it would be difficult to diagnose.

At one point, I had 3 tires with half tread and one brand new tire (due to replacement from a flat) and drove it this way for quite a while with no issues.

I will say that I personally am not a fan of completely different sets of tires on the same vehicle but I again doubt this is the issue.

 

[LokiWolf]

Hi all,

the mobile guy came and got nothing reported. We drove around and tried to trip the warning - no luck. he read some manual info he had access to and pointed to tire pressure and there has been a 1-3 lbs difference at times. I think one of the fronts has a micro slow leak.

After much effort to get to the dealership to try to solve this, I'm here today. There is NOTHING reported in the data - the guy showed me. they are checking it more but the early theory is the same - this is differences in the tires and a few lbs pressure ( never low pressure) .. That is Brand new Michliens on the rear ( that are Michelin Defender LTX M/S, not the Primacy Mich that came on the SUV) and the 2 Primacys on the front with only 20K miles. 1 of the front's has been lower like 33/34 lbs when the others were at 38.

does this sound possible @LokiWolf

Yeah, I in agreement with @duneslider. Something else is still going on. Front to back minor size differences shouldn't cause the ELSD to engage. Left to right in the rear "Could", and would be more defined if you were turning(When there is already a differential in speed).

I still think you have a damaged Wheel speed sensor.

 

[Bo Simmons]

@duneslider @LokiWolf - you guys are freaking awsome to keep helping me but I'm in that crap place. Local dealer JC Lewis said they are going to keep my car for 1-3 weeks and then likely say the same thing the guys who were over an hour away in the country (Metter Ga) said today. Given there were no codes other than some stuff that might be related to a small front end accident my wife had with the Cooling Air Dam there were NO codes about the ELSD. More over with more balanced air pressure all within 1 lbs, I drove 70 miles each way to Metter Ford today and never got this ELSD reduced tourqe message showing up. Metter Ford Service seemed to try but I have to give them there is not much to work with.

I'm actually going to switch to 4 Bridgestone Blizzack tires here locally in Savannah GA and drive out to Colorado to work remote for over a month.

So I figure I have a couple of tests to see if ELSD message comes on based on the lower tire pressure and/or having slightly different all season Michilens on the SUV front to back. ( newest are in the back).

1. I can lower the pressure in the front right to say 32 and see if that alone trips this sensor again.
2. As mentioned above I'm about to mount 4 new snow tires and I can see the sensor fails to activate.

I've attached the picture of this warning too so you can see what we see.

My main question is does this feel like any transmission or 4x4 drive train failure that might leave us stranded on the 2000 mile drive from GA to CO? Not holding you to anything - just asking your thoughts since I can not get a good fix on this so far.

 

[duneslider]

I don't know enough about that warning to know what it actually means. In my head (which is probably wrong), I would think it would just mean the limited slip function wouldn't be working and would just be an open diff. @LokiWolf probably knows better on that. I thought these were purely electronic, so if there is a malfunction it just behaves like an open diff. (this is different than Jeep's locking limited slip where it has a mechanical limited slip and an electronic lock, this might also be what the ford trucks have?)

When it has given you this warning does it cause any driveability issues? It's not like it is putting you into limp mode or anything right? I have a poor connection in a wheel speed sensor on my jeep and I occasionally get traction control warnings and jiggling the wires makes it go away for a while. I need to fix it but it doesn't really cause me problems and I only think about it when it happens and I am not in a position to deal with it.

 

[LokiWolf]

These are not a limited slip, with an E-Locker, these are a true ELSD, with a simulated lock feature. So default with no power should be open. That message typically means the ELSD has been very active, and is now in a reduced capability mode, hence the reduced Torque message.

As far as your 2 tests. I would not think #1 would cause the behavior, but might test that myself this weekend.

#2 will tell you A LOT. Put 4 brand new equal size tires on, and drive it a BUNCH of miles, in to an area I am guessing you are expecting snow. Your ELSD will definitely be tested.

Also, I would not recommend driving across country with the Blizzaks mounted. On not winter temps on the highway, they are going to wear FAST! A day running on the highway in warm weather will take a bunch of tread off them. You will possibly get to Colorado with a well worn tire. They are the opposite of a summer tire, they don’t like heat and are SOFT at higher ambient temps.

 

[GlennSullivan]

When you first posted, I checked the circumference and revs per mile of both the older Primacy you had on the vehicle (now only on the front) and the newer Defenders on the rear. They are an exact match in both circumference and revs per mile, so nothing there to trigger the system.

I would tend to think that a 3 or 4 lb difference could cause an issue. Keep in mind that TPS units themselves are not super accurate and unfortunately Ford has not seen fit to show their output on the DIC, where the driver can see like GM does. I know for a fact that displayed pressure and actual pressure on my Z06 Corvette and Tahoe can be off by 2+ lbs between what the sensor is reading on the DIC and what a super accurate mechanical gauge reads. The vehicle makes decisions based on the sensor output not the real measured pressure. So a good gauge could be showing you a 2lb difference and the sensors showing a 4lb difference.

I am also in COMPLETE AGREEMENT with Loki that you should not run the Blizzacks on long highway trips. They are a super soft compound and sidewall that will take away overall vehicle stability at highway speeds and cornering. We ran a set (4) on a 2WD company van we had for better winter traction and handling in northeast snow conditions and while they helped on local snowy roads, they were unstable (being kind) at highway speeds. The staff would always take a different vehicle for longer trips while they were installed and could not wait to get them off the van in the spring.

I ran 3 different sets of Michelin LTX tires in northeast winters for multiple winters on our 2011 2014 and 2017 4x4 Expeditions and did not have issues in winter conditions. I would replace the front Primacys with tires matching the rear LTX Defenders and air them up to 38lbs (they will drop as you enter the colder climate. I run ours at 34 in winter conditions and 38 in summer.

As I also said in the earlier post, thoroughly check all 4 wheel speed sensors and connectors to make sure they are good, especially the 2 rear, where tires have been changed already. Maybe even a preemptive strike and change the 2 rears on your dime, using the $$$ you will be saving on not replacing the 2 rear tires.

JMHO for what it is worth.

 

[Bo Simmons]

@LokiWolf @GlennSullivan @duneslider

Hi Guys, it's the Weird ESDL guy with what I think is the resolution. So the Dealership in Metter Ga focused me on the tire pressure and difference in the Front to back tires I had. While it seems incredibly oversensitive, it appears that 2 Michelin Primacy with 20K miles and brand 2 Michelin Defender M/S were just different enough to make something like the Wheel speed sensor not happy. A few weeks ago, I put 2 new 2 Michelin Defender M/S on the front to match so I had 4 brand new, same size and same exact model tire all around and BOOM ... I have not seen the warning in 12 days and about 800 miles of driving both highways and around town.

this forum was a really helpful resource to a weird issue and one that the local Savannah Dealer would have kept my car for weeks only to not fix it. ( J C Lewis Ford in Savannah is not a good place and the folks there are not helpful ... if you are in Coastal Georgia try Metter Ford !!!)

Lokiwolf - see you are an Admin, I wasn't sure how best to close this thread or make this last post with the real answer more available than page 2 but if you can do that or advise me, I'll do it,,,

 

[Bo Simmons]

Oh also took the Advice and sent back snow tires for my drive to Colorado and back.

 

[LokiWolf]

@LokiWolf @GlennSullivan @duneslider

Hi Guys, it's the Weird ESDL guy with what I think is the resolution. So the Dealership in Metter Ga focused me on the tire pressure and difference in the Front to back tires I had. While it seems incredibly oversensitive, it appears that 2 Michelin Primacy with 20K miles and brand 2 Michelin Defender M/S were just different enough to make something like the Wheel speed sensor not happy. A few weeks ago, I put 2 new 2 Michelin Defender M/S on the front to match so I had 4 brand new, same size and same exact model tire all around and BOOM ... I have not seen the warning in 12 days and about 800 miles of driving both highways and around town.

this forum was a really helpful resource to a weird issue and one that the local Savannah Dealer would have kept my car for weeks only to not fix it. ( J C Lewis Ford in Savannah is not a good place and the folks there are not helpful ... if you are in Coastal Georgia try Metter Ford !!!)

Lokiwolf - see you are an Admin, I wasn't sure how best to close this thread or make this last post with the real answer more available than page 2 but if you can do that or advise me, I'll do it,,,

If you can edit the original post, do that and add the resolution. If you can’t I will later today when I get back to a computer. Thanks for closing the loop!

 

[2020ExpyPlatinum]

If you have 4WD / AWD you should always change tires in complete sets. The differences in tread is enough to cause these issues not to mention it throws your transfer case into convulsions with differently sized tires.

I have replaced a customers transfer case on an AWD vehicle due to many years of running tires that were worn down pretty good in the rear and new ones in the front.

 

[duneslider]

It makes me wonder if it is the fact that there were 2 tires slightly different and not one. Like I said, I have run with the spare tire for hundreds of miles with no issue. Glad it is doing better. I do typically recommend 4 tires at a time.

 

[teriyaki_cowboy]

@Bo Simmons also from/live in Savannah, JC Lewis in Savannah is god awful. The new location in Pooler has been much more accommodating and helpful for my expy and tremor. I also have my 1994 f150 get work done at RPM Autowerx off Chatham. Almost impossible to get in or be actually hlped at JC in Savannah.

 

[Bo Simmons]

I could use some help understanding this and ways to get the proper service done before we drive 30 hours to Colorado to use this 4X4.

We have a 2020 Expy with F4 (4x4 options). has 23,488 miles, driven in used in 2H mode 99.9% of the time and driven in Georgia on mild city and highway roads, zero off-roading to date.

We had a nail in the sidewall on a rear tire. The tires had plenty of treads left but I decided to buy 2 matching new rear tires at 23K miles so they were better matched. The tires took 1 day to arrive so they put on my Spare which was a full-sized matching Michelin tire. That night driving home in a light drizzle, the warning 1st came on. Said ""Electronic Limited Slip Differential Reduced Torque" and had a place to click Ok. I clicked ok and message went away till I drove it again then it ceased coming on for a few short drives. I got the 2 new Michelin Defender LTX M/s put on the next day and later that evening, the warning message came on again. It now comes on occasionally (50% of the time) at low speeds, often under 45mph, and even on dry pavement. The dealer here in Savannah is a nightmare - 2 weeks to get a diagnostic appointment and 2-5 days there in the shop to diagnose the issue ( total joke for service but my only warranty choice) - but they are sending a mobile service to try and pull codes to see if it is a wheel speed sensor going/ gone bad.

So, to recap this started when using the spare and continued when we replaced both rear tires with similar Michilen 275-65-18 Defender LTX M/s tires which I've heard shouldn't matter. The original tires were. Michelin Primacy XC and there are still 2 matched on the front.

I could use help or advice as I've see dealers having trouble with ELSD messages. I've reviewed other posts and read deep into this one https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/2022-check-elsd-service-vehicle-soon.52620/ which contained this info below.

Electronic Limited Slip Differential Reduced Torque
Displays if the electronically limited-slip differential has limited functionality. This could be due to an undersized spare tire or caused by the system overheating. If you have an undersized spare tire installed, replace the spare tire with a full-sized tire as soon as possible. If you do not have an undersized spare tire installed, the vehicle has reduced functionality. Have your vehicle checked as soon as possible.

***** UPDATE / RESOLUTION **** You can read the details of this post but the bottom line is this came on because I had a spare on and then because I had two new tires that were the same exact size but just 20K miles newer and different Mud Snow Tread. when I put all 4 of the same tires on this SUV this message never came up again!!