Is there a reason 15-17s can’t use a universal shock??? Update: Things are looking good!!

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My rear drivers shock is leaking.
Don’t want Motorcraft again as they have proven their longevity sucks in this application though do give a nice ride. KYB is just meh and no way I am going to stick Monroe or Gabriel’s on this.
Is there something odd about the shock ends that would keep one from getting a universal shock like the Fox 2.0 in the proper length?? I have taken no measurements the link is just a random universal length I grabbed.
https://offroadwarehouse.com/i-10166746-fox-shox-2-0-x-6-5-smooth-body-remote-reservoir-shock.html

I have an XLT with the no frills suspension.
 
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After some more thinking I may have answered my own question.
I am guessing the lower spring perch is actually attached to the shock housing.
 
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So looking into this more it would appear that the newer models in fact have the spring perch actually attached to the shock housing.

The older models have a removable spring perch that is transferred to the new shock.
As shown in the Stage 3 Motorsports Install video of Bilsteins for 2007-2013 models.
https://www.stage3motorsports.com/2...-Bilstein-B6-4600-Front-Shock-Assemblies.html

According to this Ford site the shock with the attached spring perch is compatible all the way back to 2011.
https://www.stonehamparts.com/oem-parts/ford-shock-absorber-al1z18125f/?c=YT1mb3Jk

I am guessing one just does not reuse the lower spring perch.

So now I am curious if I purchase the lower spring perches from an older model can I use the Bilstein shock with my current spring assembly.

Think I may purchase a Bilstein and a KYB to compare the top shaft length and it’s threading.

The lower shock bolt appears to be the same across all model years going back to 2007.
 
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The top nut is the same across the board as well.

I know that just going off Fords parts diagrams can be problematic so I have reached out to Stage 3 Motorsports since they have hands on experience with both models to see if they know of any other reasons why utilizing the removable lower spring perch and Bilstein or better yet the proper length Fox or King shock with an external reservoir, and threaded top shaft instead of a bolt eyelet, then the 15-17 spring and mounting hardware would not work.

Guessing I would have to get the lower spring perches from the junkyard as I can’t locate a part number for them since Ford seems to have switched to the integrated perch and I am just coming up with the new shock part number.
 

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From Stage 3 Motor Sports, regarding using Bilstein shocks on a '15-'17 truck..

"I'm assuming from the description that these will not work on the 2015-17 Expeditions, curious why not if so, given the minimal changes, ad what other quality shock options are available for the '15-'17 models? Thanks..
Asked by: lrnad90 - 5/28/2018
A_bubble.jpg The rear suspension and driveline of the 2015-2018 Expeditions actually changed quite a bit to handle the extra output from the 3.5L EcoBoost, which caused issues with shock fitment. Unfortunately, Bilstein does not currently have replacement shock options for the later Expedition Models.
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Answer provided by: Jason@Stage3 (5/29/2018)"


https://www.stage3motorsports.com/2...n-Bilstein-B6-4600-Rear-Shock-Assemblies.html

I would think KYB would be a good choice, given what I'm currently aware of being available as a bolt in option. I'd rank KYB as higher quality than Monroe, and the stock motorcraft for sure.

You may also want to check out What Adventure Driven did with their Expedition. an contact ICON. I know there truck is the earlier 3rd generation, but perhaps ICON can offer you more insight into available options..

 
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I read their blurb and that is why I contacted them directly with a bit more detail to see what exactly the differences are.
It would appear that the dimensions of the shock are pretty much identical and have the same mounting hardware since the insepcion of this generation.
Could be that valving is drastically different. But if the shock housing of a Fox or King shock is similar to that of the housing of the old style and one could use a removavble spring perch. Getting the proper length and top shaft diameter are the 2 biggest factors. Threading is no big deal as a top nut would not be difficult to locate.
Valving could be discussed with the manufacturer to match what is needed for the 15-17s and likely have adjustability depending upon the level one goes with.

I also have zero experience with the pre2015 models so there could be some glaring descepency between the model lines I am missing.

In that case I’ll just get the KYBs.
But if there is a way to do it even if it costs a little bit of coin and ingenuity I am good with that. I hope to have this rig for 10+ years so I have no issue spending some bucks to have top notch quality that won’t start leaking again in 2 years.
 
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I thought the bottom mount was different as well.

Would be a bit helpful if I had an early model to compare directly.

The way they look in the 2 videos don’t seem to be any different. The arm looks very similar and the entire unit is oriented the same way as mine.

There is a fella down the road with a Triton model maybe I need to make friends with him.
 
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I am going to get to the bottom of this and so far I am pretty optimistic I won't have to get KYBs.


I thought the bottom mount was different as well.

Turns out that this is the case on the front but I do not forsee that being an issue.
The 07-13 utilize a single bolt and nut that go through the side of the control arm and shock eyelet.
2007-2013.jpg
The 15-17 utilize a pin with plates on each side and then are secured vertically in the control arms with 2 bolts. The shock eyelet is the same the pin is just inserted through instead of the single bolt and 2 bolts connect to that. So I should be able to reuse that pin from my factory shock.
2015-2017.jpg

At this point I am 95% positive that if I am able to get a set of the lower spring perches from a 07-13 that the rear Bilsteins will work without any issue.
All the rear part numbers across the board are identical for folks that make them for the 15-17s. That includes Motorcraft, Napa, KYB, and Monroe (pretty sure they make Napa) and of course all the specs. are the same per brand.

The front is where we come up with the differences that I can locate comparing my truck to videos and part numbers and part specifications that I can find. The specs are slightly different and to lower mount style but as pointed out I don't think that will be an issue.

So far the the specs for the fronts that I have been able to locate show that for the 2016 models:

NAPA
Body length is .06" longer than the 07-13
Compressed length .06" longer than the 07-13
Extended length 1.24" shorter than the 07-13
Travel/Stroke Length 1.31" shorter than the 07-13

KYB
Unable to locate a body length
Compressed length is .28" shorter than the 07-13
Extended length is 1.11" longer than the 07-13
Travel/Stroke length is 1.39" longer than the 07-13

I have been unable to locate the specs for the Bilsteins or for the Motorcrafts anywhere on the web. I can't find an email address for Bilstein to inquire but did locate a phone number. But preschool doesn't start for 2 weeks and with 3 kiddos under 5 running around here there is no possibility for a phone conversation during business hours at the moment.
Once I find out the specs of the Bilstein I will be more inclined to figure out if the fronts will still work or not.

If the lengths happen to fall somewhat close to the KYBs or the Napas I don't see why they won't work especially since the updated Motorcraft shock is shared across the board.

I also reached out to King Shocks ( http://www.kingshocks.com/ )via e-mail and they advised that they do not have a current set for the Expedition but would gladly be able to make them custom for me to the length specs I needed. I need to call to get a little more info to see if they have shock body diameter options and if they would be able to weld a sleeve on the body to act as a stop for the factory lower spring perch. And of course the BIG question how much $$$$$$. If they are able to accommodate a shock body that is smaller than that of the hole in the spring perch and sleeve to act as a stop hopefully it won't be too crazy expensive as I would likely just go with a standard emulsion shock as this rig will only see light off-roading and and external reservoir would be over kill. Plus adjustability would be a huge plus over Bilsteins

So right now I am on the hunt for a set of (4) removable lower spring perches. I have contacted Green Sales up in Cincinnati which is the best go to place for obsolete Ford parts.
http://www.greensalescompany.com/

I have checked the online inventories of my local salvage yards and plenty of pre 07 Expeditions but nothing after that. I will keep hunting though.
I have put a WTB ad here and on a few of the automotive Facebook pages I am on. So if you all have any or know of a salvage yard that may have them please let me know.

It appears the NAPA setup still uses a removable spring perch but I can’t find just the perch on their site. So it may he just a stock photo. Though I have a buddy that works at NAPA so I’ll see what he can find out.

Still no word back from Stage 3 Motorsports to my inquiry of any specific difference between the models they are aware of.

If I am able to get ahold of the spring perches I am half tempted to just buy a single front Bilstein and install it to see what issues if any I run into. Worst case scenerio I am out $80 though Amazon is pretty return friendly may try to get one from them.
 
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