Misfire Mystery...

[ricofrancois]

Hi,

I posted about an intermittent rough idle on my 07 Expedition but wanted to start a new thread as the issue disappeared and I suspect it may be unrelated.

I was using a Vyncs OBD2 Tracker and Engine Health reader in the last couple of days. I received 2 messages saying that:
1) Fuel mixture is lean and consumption may be high.
2) O2 Sensor reading out of range

On a trip on the freeway uphill, I got a blinking engine light and some misfire under load. Letting go of the gas a bit made the misfire stop and the flashing light disappear. I finish my journey driving slower and using the Overdrive uphill which seems to help. I only got misfires another couple of times with flashing light which again was fix when slowing down.

This morning I took the car to the mechanic who read misfire code on cylinder 5 and 4. With misfire still occurring. Mechanics removed plugs and check them. they were fine. Checked injectors and coils, all good.

He started the car and no misfire. He told me to just drive the car to see what happens but he couldn't locate any issue. His guess is maybe a bad wiring somewhere but he couldn't verify...

Any comments?

 

[Steeple_Jack]

Subscribed...my 2010 did this once but not again since...now I a bit paranoid. Interested to see what comes up.

 

[ricofrancois]

When I picked up the car, I could hear a ticking noise. hard to tell where it comes form but seems to be from the exhaust near the driver's side. The engine seems to not running great at idle but the car runs okay in the city with no engine light...
I connected my blue drive scanner and got a P1000 code:

VIN: DECODED:

P1000 Repair Report

2007 Ford Expedition (XLT)

P1000 CODE DEFINITION:

• On-Board Diagnostic OBD Systems Readiness Test Not Complete

4 POSSIBLE CAUSES:

• Battery keep alive power (KAPWR) circuit to the PCM has been opened
• One or more OBD II Monitors did not complete during an OBD II Drive Cycle • PCM Reset step was performed with an OBD II capable Scan Tool
• PTO circuit is shorted to voltage (VPWR or B+), or PTO "on" during testing

TOP REPORTED FIX:

• Performed Emission Monitor Drive Cycle(s)

FREQUENTLY REPORTED FIX:

• Performed Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Programming w/P0122, P0223, P0607...

7 OTHER REPORTED FIXES:

• Repaired Fuel Pump Driver Module (FPDM) Connector • Replaced Automatic Transmission
• Replaced Coil On Plug(s) (COP)

7 OTHER REPORTED FIXES: (Continued)

• Replaced Engine Oil Temperature (EOT) Sensor
• Replaced Powertrain Control Module (PCM) w/P0122, P0223, P0607... • Replaced Spark Plug(s)
• Reset Emission Monitor Drive Cycle(s)

 

[ricofrancois]

Something else I noticed when accelerating on park, the engine will not go over 3000 rpm...

 

[ricofrancois]

After driving today, I noticed that misfires occurs under load over 3000 / 3500 rpm but no codes

 

[stamp11127]

Possible vacuum leak causing a lean misfire. If the mechanic can smoke test the lines and intake manifold that would be a good test.

When was the last tune up?

Are the cops & boots original?

 

[ricofrancois]

Ford did a tune up at 40k ago at 100k. 1 COP was replaced. I replaced 2 more COP since and all plugs again 3000 miles ago.
Recently I had a rough idle and Ford replace COP and injector on #8. They did a stress test on the block and couldn't see any isssue.
Now the misfire is constant, it is going in today. I will update on what they say

 

[ricofrancois]

Quick question. Are there more issues on the 07 triton or is it just a myth?

 

[ricofrancois]

Ford called me and reported a bad coil on #4. That will proceed with replacing COP and plug... I am surprised that this is such a straightforward fix but I guess I will see when I pick up the car tomorrow. I wish I had an engine light or some kind of code.
Ford quoted $498... Annoying but having said that #4 is probably a pain

 

[docraymund]

You have to check fuel pressure at the aforementioned rpm range.

 

[ricofrancois]

According to Ford the misfire only really is noticeable under stress. While there was no engine code, they said they tested the coil under stress and it failed.

Car runs much better and idle sounds good. Ticking noise is gone.

I will be able to confirm at the week end when going on the freeway through the mountains.

For @Steeple_Jack it is possible that your problem is different but for me except for the rough idle, the car had plenty of power starting at a light or accelerating on the freeway. The issue really was obvious in the mountains on freeway or when letting go of the gas at 70mph and reaccelerating.

 

[Hawaiianbasshead]

Any update by chance? Gonna change my cops and last 3 plugs tomorrow if I can. The 07 I picked up has what seems like a misfire to me not just at 3krpm but I have a hard time putting much throttle to her, even in park it won't rev up to or past 3krpm. When I reset it by taking the battery negative off changing plugs it would seem to be gone for a bit but would come back after restarting or driving a little ways.

I only get evap codes p0453 and 0453 p which I think is a pending code but no misfires just like you... so I think maybe under load I get heavy misfiring under load that isn't registering, even when I ran the car into sputtering/misfiring while my new obd2 reader was plugged in...

 

[USMCBuckWild]

Any update by chance? Gonna change my cops and last 3 plugs tomorrow if I can. The 07 I picked up has what seems like a misfire to me not just at 3krpm but I have a hard time putting much throttle to her, even in park it won't rev up to or past 3krpm. When I reset it by taking the battery negative off changing plugs it would seem to be gone for a bit but would come back after restarting or driving a little ways.

I only get evap codes p0453 and 0453 p which I think is a pending code but no misfires just like you... so I think maybe under load I get heavy misfiring under load that isn't registering, even when I ran the car into sputtering/misfiring while my new obd2 reader was plugged in...

That sounds more like a fuel filter issue to me.

 

[ricofrancois]

Any update by chance? Gonna change my cops and last 3 plugs tomorrow if I can. The 07 I picked up has what seems like a misfire to me not just at 3krpm but I have a hard time putting much throttle to her, even in park it won't rev up to or past 3krpm. When I reset it by taking the battery negative off changing plugs it would seem to be gone for a bit but would come back after restarting or driving a little ways.

I only get evap codes p0453 and 0453 p which I think is a pending code but no misfires just like you... so I think maybe under load I get heavy misfiring under load that isn't registering, even when I ran the car into sputtering/misfiring while my new obd2 reader was plugged in...

@Hawaiianbasshead

Did you do anything? I just wanted to confirm that on the 07 Expedition, there is a limiter at around 3000 rpm and this is therefore not a not an issue. If in park, and raving the engine, the RPM gauge will bounce around 3000 RPM. This is normal. There should not be misfire or sputtering though.

As far as replacing the COPS, while it seems a shame to replace a healthy part, I would say that near 100k miles, it wouldn't hurt replacing all of them. I didn't and they have been failing one by one in the last 2 years. I replaced 4 out of 8 and it costs almost $500 each time if done by ford. It seems that they just go bad and fail with different symptoms each time, some triggering an engine code with a clear misfire, some generating a stutter when lightly re-accelerating at 50/60mph, or sometimes only noticeable under a lot of stress.

Final thing is plugs should be replaced when replacing a failing COP.

Good Luck

 

[1955moose]

Wow, as usual you have a cornucopia of issues with your vehicle that others seem also to have. The coils don't usually fail unless they get wet with coolant, or somebody trying to clean their engine. You might want to change out all the coil boots that haven't already been, their spark plug wires that break down. Second find and fix your Exaust leak on the drivers side. A leaky Exaust will give a lean condition. So take care of that. The other issue that may be causing some of the drivability issue is the fuel pump drivers module, near the spare tire. The wiring along with the module corrodes, causing driving issues. A fuel pressure test is definitely in order as well. You asked a question earlier on, are there more issues on the 07 triton, or is it just a myth? No unfortunately it's not a myth. We've had forum members that have totally failed engines, from 2006-2011 in the past two weeks. Yours at this point is drivability only. Try the items I suggested, and report results.


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[Hawaiianbasshead]

I actually have a few updates. There seems to be quite a few problems with this pita. I had an 07 a few years back and luckily never had any issues at all... joined the f150online forums back then and it was only the toy I got for my ex-wife so didn't keep it long but it was completely reliable in that timespan.. Anyway-

I finished changing all cops, changed all but furthest back plug on each side when they break do the pieces unscrew from each other? Seemed like I got the rear drivers side backed out but couldn't get it out still... left it due to frustration but after screwing it back in definitely has a rougher idle than before...

Coils on passenger side and spark plug wells definitely are swimming in coolant after my driving it today they were submerged as deep as the plug well can hold fluid, I vacuumed it out with a shop vac for now but clearly this is a problem.

Cleaned the throttle body as it was nasty af... I have to admit my patience with this thing is getting thinner =( .

Funny enough I did pick up a fuel filter but haven't changed it yet since the rest was pretty discouraging at best... was running pretty nice today after finishing changing the last coils prior to messing up the drivers rear plug and realizing my plug boots were below coolant =/ decided to take a break and was gonna go catch some surf I just want to face palm myself and cry lol. Definitely got what I paid for with this thing. The passenger side axle shaft and little box between it and the different are covered in fluid so the seals are gone on that for sure. I know all the regular maintenance bushings ect all need to be changed, tires are bald, shocks are blown lol. Money pit comes to mind but I got it for 2gs broken and had figured another couple gs would make it pretty dependable but now I'm stressing lol.

Would a partially closed tstat make for pressurized coolant causing that leak over my pass side head? Figured if I gotta change that hose with the T off the water pump or whatever that is on there might as well change the tstat & pump...

 

[Hawaiianbasshead]

Ha, wrong thread updated, sorry!

 

[1955moose]

Hawaiian got a little confused, as yours is almost same as Rico. Change your hoses, all heater hoses should be changed out every 4 years or so as precaution anyway. Don't change pump, but definitely thermostat. Humidity is a killer of not only the body, but rubber, and pretty much all metal items on your SUV. The heat drys out the hoses under the hood and makes them brittle. For all you guys that want the hoses to go a little longer, buy a bottle of rubber lubricant, like tire shops use for mounting tires. Ru glide I think is the name. Spray the rubber every few months to keep it soft and pliable.


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[jrschultz15]

I have the 07 Expedition (pos). Have had a misfire and it runs like crap. has gotten worse over time. I have replaced plugs, coils, throttle body. Cleaned the airflow sensor. Still runs like crap. Very rough. Take it for a drive and it gets worse. Someone suggested cats are bad. I ended up cutting them off. Its loud but seems to idle better. When revving it, it wont go over 3k RPM's? There was an issue a while back with the coolant hoses going bad that leaked coolant all over the passenger side so the plugs where soaked. I did replace all that after. Im ready to put new cats and sensors in. Anyone have any other ideas if that doesnt do the trick?