Need help diagnosing knock/rattle noise .

[Alfred andrade]

Hi looking to get to advice or where to start with finding what this noise is.
I have a 2008 limited 5.4 triton the noise doesn’t sound good. Also I have a profound ticking sound but the knock is more concerning.
This is the video I took. Sorry was only me so I had to mount my phone under the hood so I could rev the motor.
Please lmk what you guys think or what questions I can awnser to help. SUV has 160kmiles

 

[TobyU]

That's a 3 valve I assume. You'll get a bunch of answers later form ones with experience with those. I'm staying away as long as I can.

I've just heard the cam phasers messing up sound like a diesel. That sounds like it to me and like timing chains are slapping knocking around.
Maybe you will be lucky and only need some VCT solenoids but I think those usually give codes and make it run rough at idle but ok faster.
The tensioner gasket seal gets bad on those from the videos I have seen.

Good luck and hang in there for more info from others throughout the day.

 

[Alfred andrade]

Thank you, yeah I’d say it sound like it could be the timing chain or the guides vibrating around in there. Do you know how big of a job is it to put in a new timing chain?

 

[08navigator]

I believe that's your cam phasers knocking. Ours makes the same noise at really low rpm. There's a locking pin that gets a small amount of play in it in the phaser and it knocks around. According to fordmakeuloco, as long as it's the motorcraft brand phaser, it's not an issue.

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[JExpedition07]

Sounds normal idling, just injectors ticking. I hear a little something when you rev it. Normally if camphasers are worn they will knock at hot idle, is that the case? That pin can be normal wear. Any startup clanking? Those are more symptoms of timing set woes. Not sure what we hear in this video and hard to pin point.

Your noise could be multiple things maybe no big deal...may need more diagnosis.

 

[1955moose]

Either way you're going to have to tear into front end. When, depends on you. I believe to do the job right, new chains, gears, guides, and new phasers, is about a 7 hour job. Another 2 hours to pull and replace pan. The pan needs to be pulled as well, due to debris from the timing chain guides depositing on top of oil pump pick up screen. On top of that the oil pump should be changed while in there. Parts and labor can be as much as $2,000.00, depending what shop does it.

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[Alfred andrade]

It dosnt make noise when it’s starting if u listen closely at the u can hear the clock clock sound after I rev it or wen it’s at about 2000rpm and when idling. It’s gets louder after the car is warmed up and it idles.
So if it’s the cam phasers , or say the timing chain guides. Is it still safe to drive? How long do u think more I could drive it before I have to fix it, if you had to guess.
I’ll probly be fixing it on my own have any of you done the repair? Is it a big job, Any special tools required?
Thanks guys really appreciate how fast you all got back to me.

 

[TobyU]

That seems to be the typical symptoms. Rattling more at idle when hot. Can you sell it? Trade it in? A lot of work to do it right. A lot of people don't pull the pan not too judgment call. Pending on Miles everything else. I get a bright flashlight and look in the front of it may be rigged a piece of plastic clear tubing tape to the end of a Shop-Vac to reach down the pan and try to suck stuff out. It seems they high quality fix for these is to do the timing components and then pull the pan and put a new improved high volume oil pump. I don't even know if you can pull the pan in the vehicle but it sounds like you can.
It's almost a toss-up between what's easier pulling the pan on the vehicle and left in the engine up and all that are just pulling the engine out I'm doing it on the stand. Pulling the engine is only about two balls on each side for the exhaust pipes, 3 bolts for the converter transmission Shield, three or four bolts for the torque converter to flexplate, a bolt or two for each motor mount, and the two single screw Quick Connect wiring harnesses..
I can pull an engine out of one of these and have it on the engine stand between 45 minutes and an hour 15 if things go well. Last one I did I did have to cut one or two of the exhaust bolts off as they wouldn't loosen up or whatever. Now I took about eight extra minutes with a grinder. Then when you've got it out you can do lots of little stuff and clean it up.

 

[JExpedition07]

It dosnt make noise when it’s starting if u listen closely at the u can hear the clock clock sound after I rev it or wen it’s at about 2000rpm and when idling. It’s gets louder after the car is warmed up and it idles.
So if it’s the cam phasers , or say the timing chain guides. Is it still safe to drive? How long do u think more I could drive it before I have to fix it, if you had to guess.
I’ll probly be fixing it on my own have any of you done the repair? Is it a big job, Any special tools required?
Thanks guys really appreciate how fast you all got back to me.

Any other symptoms? Doesn’t stall? No codes? If you get no clanking at startup you likely have no problems with regards to the timing chain and tensioners, that’s the dead giveaway. That’s the point when no oil pressure is present where the tensioners would be relaxed and the loose chain would show itself. If it doesn’t then it likely isn’t at all. The most likely thing is some wear on the phasers if you have a hot idle knock. If it’s still running good and no codes or loud knocking it’s safe to drive.

Try changing your oil to 5W-30 next change and keep it that way. FordTechMakuloco recommends it and stated 5W-20 is only used for fuel economy. Many owners report quieter operation with 5W-30. Ive been using it in mine for a while now.

 

[Alfred andrade]

Dang yeah def seems like pulling the engine is the best way to go. Okay this might be kinda messed up but is there a way I can get that noise to stop temporarily maybe puting some thicker oil or an additive so that it can be presentable to sell. Of course I’d tell them bout it but just don’t want it making such a big noise.
My wife just confirmed it did make the noise when she started it and it got louder after it warmed up.
She really loves this truck n we just lifted it n converted the rear to coil overs. I no she is gonna want me to fix it but dang this sounds like a big job somthjng I may get lost in along the way.
I’m a diesel machanic never was good with electronic stuff I dread when my truck has an electrical issue n it’s a vp 24valve Cummins it’s hardly got any electronics, this car just unplugging all those wires make me nervous.

That seems to be the typical symptoms. Rattling more at idle when hot. Can you sell it? Trade it in? A lot of work to do it right. A lot of people don't pull the pan not too judgment call. Pending on Miles everything else. I get a bright flashlight and look in the front of it may be rigged a piece of plastic clear tubing tape to the end of a Shop-Vac to reach down the pan and try to suck stuff out. It seems they high quality fix for these is to do the timing components and then pull the pan and put a new improved high volume oil pump. I don't even know if you can pull the pan in the vehicle but it sounds like you can.
It's almost a toss-up between what's easier pulling the pan on the vehicle and left in the engine up and all that are just pulling the engine out I'm doing it on the stand. Pulling the engine is only about two balls on each side for the exhaust pipes, 3 bolts for the converter transmission Shield, three or four bolts for the torque converter to flexplate, a bolt or two for each motor mount, and the two single screw Quick Connect wiring harnesses..
I can pull an engine out of one of these and have it on the engine stand between 45 minutes and an hour 15 if things go well. Last one I did I did have to cut one or two of the exhaust bolts off as they wouldn't loosen up or whatever. Now I took about eight extra minutes with a grinder. Then when you've got it out you can do lots of little stuff and clean it up.

 

[JExpedition07]

Can you do us a favor and post a video of the truck idling completely up to operating temperature from the passanger side wheel well (lower)?

I’m still not sure what I can even hear in this video, could be that my iPhone 10 isn’t a good viewing device. I wouldn’t assume the worst or that your having timing set issues yet. If you can’t isolate the noise at least have it diagnosed....

 

[Alfred andrade]

Can you do us a favor and post a video of the truck idling completely up to operating temperature from the passanger side wheel well (lower)?

I’m still not sure what I can even hear in this video, could be that my iPhone 10 isn’t a good viewing device. I wouldn’t assume the worst or that your having timing set issues yet. If you can’t isolate the noise at least have it diagnosed....

Okay I’m up loading a cold start video to you tube now. In the mean time while it’s warming up. My wife was incorrect the sound is louder with the engine cold and quites down wen it gets warmer.

 

[Alfred andrade]

This is the cold start video when I say cold I mean 75degrees I live in Hawaii.

 

[JExpedition07]

Okay I’m up loading a cold start video to you tube now. In the mean time while it’s warming up. My wife was incorrect the sound is louder with the engine cold and quites down wen it gets warmer.

It’s so hard to try and help diagnose via video.

Camphasers will almost always make more noise and racket when hot and up to operating temp idling than cold start. Here is a clear video on camphaser noise btw. It’s what you hear when he goes under the truck, pay attention to the louder noises. The fine ticking of the injectors hinders your ability to hear it up top.

 

[1955moose]

Next time it's cold, very carefully use a stethoscope or a long thin screwdriver up to ear, and move around motor. The symptoms lead more to a oiling problem of sorts. Ticking is valve train, knocking is lower end, rod or main bearings. Another problem on these motors is stuck valve lifter bore actuators. But if one or more was stuck/galled, it would be worse hot. If your stethoscope test leads more towards upper part of motor, rather than front, it is possible a hydraulic valve cam follower is not pumping up cold. Try the oil change up to the 5/30 oil, with a Ford filter. Some here say the cheaper filters on the 3 valve motors contribute to cold start problems.

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[TobyU]

If you're in Hawaii like profile says then put 5w-40 or 5w-30 or better yet 10w-30 in it.
That should quieten it a little. I use 10w-30 all the time in ford modulars in warm weather and usually but not always go to 5w-30 for cold.
So many people argue about the weight ford made it for or supersedes and currently recommends.
First of all they have other concerns than we do. 2nd there is no way any 1 oil weight EVEN a multigrade can be "best" for trucks in Hawaii and also trucks in Canada.
People say you'll blow the engine, starve it for oil.... I did find one guy saying in warm Temps above 60 lets say, that nothing less than a 40wt viscosity should be used. He was advocating 15w-40 or 5w-40. There's a big difference in those two at temps around 30 though.
I've run them on 10w-30, 5w-40, 5w-30, and mobil 1 15w-50. Got a friend with an old 4.6 leaker that keeps pouring Rotella 15w-40 in and it hasn't blown up in years of that.
But sure, try some thicker oil and see what happens.
He electronics are simple on those to pull an engine.
The harness stays right on the engine. One 10mm bolt on the middle and the car end unplugs from the engine end.
You have to drop but not remove or unhook AC comp, power steering pump/bracket, remove radiator and hoses, fan and belt to pull timing cover anyway.
So from there you only have 2 quick connect fuel lines, 3-4 vacuum lines, power steering reservoir (lean out of way), the 2 exhaust manifold to pipe bolts on each side, the flex plate to torque converter bolts, 2 motor mount bolts (at least on V10 last I did) and 6-8 bolts holding engine to transmission, drop starter and lay on ground leaving wires hooked up.
Get this crap.
I pulled and replaced a V10 in an Excursion without removing hood!
I would have never thought possible.
Had to turn it sideways after lifting up a but to clear better. Same going back in sideways drop it down then spin it.
I did have to pull the intake to get enough height and not hit the hood but I also had a short hoist for the taller SUV. If I would have pulled the hood off I wouldn't have removed the intake early.

 

[Alfred andrade]

If you're in Hawaii like profile says then put 5w-40 or 5w-30 or better yet 10w-30 in it.
That should quieten it a little. I use 10w-30 all the time in ford modulars in warm weather and usually but not always go to 5w-30 for cold.
So many people argue about the weight ford made it for or supersedes and currently recommends.
First of all they have other concerns than we do. 2nd there is no way any 1 oil weight EVEN a multigrade can be "best" for trucks in Hawaii and also trucks in Canada.
People say you'll blow the engine, starve it for oil.... I did find one guy saying in warm Temps above 60 lets say, that nothing less than a 40wt viscosity should be used. He was advocating 15w-40 or 5w-40. There's a big difference in those two at temps around 30 though.
I've run them on 10w-30, 5w-40, 5w-30, and mobil 1 15w-50. Got a friend with an old 4.6 leaker that keeps pouring Rotella 15w-40 in and it hasn't blown up in years of that.
But sure, try some thicker oil and see what happens.
He electronics are simple on those to pull an engine.
The harness stays right on the engine. One 10mm bolt on the middle and the car end unplugs from the engine end.
You have to drop but not remove or unhook AC comp, power steering pump/bracket, remove radiator and hoses, fan and belt to pull timing cover anyway.
So from there you only have 2 quick connect fuel lines, 3-4 vacuum lines, power steering reservoir (lean out of way), the 2 exhaust manifold to pipe bolts on each side, the flex plate to torque converter bolts, 2 motor mount bolts (at least on V10 last I did) and 6-8 bolts holding engine to transmission, drop starter and lay on ground leaving wires hooked up.
Get this crap.
I pulled and replaced a V10 in an Excursion without removing hood!
I would have never thought possible.
Had to turn it sideways after lifting up a but to clear better. Same going back in sideways drop it down then spin it.
I did have to pull the intake to get enough height and not hit the hood but I also had a short hoist for the taller SUV. If I would have pulled the hood off I wouldn't have removed the intake early.

Thanks for the feed back yeah that doesn’t sound to bad to pull the engine. So I think you guys are right about it being the cam phasers (i think). If it’s the phaser how long can it be ran like that? It just taps/knocks the hole way down the rode most significant at around 2000rpm.

 

[TobyU]

Thanks for the feed back yeah that doesn’t sound to bad to pull the engine. So I think you guys are right about it being the cam phasers (i think). If it’s the phaser how long can it be ran like that? It just taps/knocks the hole way down the rode most significant at around 2000rpm.

Apparently people drive then darn near forever with them rattling.

 

[TobyU]

This is the cold start video when I say cold I mean 75degrees I live in Hawaii.

Sounds like the phasers I've heard. Just like a diesel rattle.

 

[Alfred andrade]

What exactly is a cam phaser can’t say I have ever heard of one. Or maybe just said differently