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Needing an engine diagram of air intake system of 04 5.4L or advice

Discussion in '2nd Gen - 2003 - 2006' started by Dudeth, Jan 12, 2021.

  1. riphip

    riphip Full Access Members

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    Mowers, lawn tractors usually have a foam or foam sock over paper filter which is great for keeping the dust out. KN filters let a lot of dust thru their filters which the oil soak doesn't catch. On the diesel forums I visit, newbies find out why their KN assisted turbos get 'dusted' and ruined. Guys on the track use them a lot but also do higher maintenance on the filtration than most do on their daily drivers. You get more air but the filtering is minimal.
     
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  2. Randy-IA

    Randy-IA Active Member

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    I can see that as being partially true, that's why I always use a oiled foam cover over mine. When I was a kid driving my big lifted Chevy I used a the normal chromed top and bottom covers with a six inch tall open element in between. I did a LOT of deep river running with my truck and could easily drive through 5 feet of water for extended periods of time. We rode the Black River in Lesterville MO for many years until trucks where kicked off it for the most part in or around 1987.

    I remember hitting the water and blowing water up over the cab of the truck while trying to soak the other guys inside their trucks. it was sort of a game of jousting with water. Very, very seldom did I ever have issues with water getting past the foam element and causing hydrolock. Of course, that's not dust.

    I can see a diesel truck having issues. They use a LOT more air than a gas engine does. That's why OTR and most off highway equipment have two separate filters and a HUGE filter box. So comparing the K&N filter on a diesel is to one on a gas engine is not comparing oranges to oranges. Neither is comparing a turbo'd engine to naturally aspirated.

    It's obviously your choice but until I see real flow meter tests with a way to determine the amount of dust that has made through the filter (not just the amount that it's caught) I think I'll stick with the pleated cotton filters. For two reasons, I don't play on a dusty roundy round track, and honestly, how long will any one person keep their vehicles? Mine are usually kept about five to six years. And I seldom buy new vehicles anymore because I like to drive my own vehicles, I don't want or need a computer to do it for me. One more thought, if 90% of your driving is on pavement, where's the dust?

    I used to be obsessive about keeping my air filters clean when I lived in the urban areas, replacing or cleaning clean filters was a must because the manual said to. I finally realized it was the aim of the company to not really suggest that because it was necessary, but to ensure that parts where sold, hopefully bought from them.

    Unless the vehicle is used in some sort of extreme conditions (off road in dust, in water with a paper filter, or racing) there is really very little need to replace or clean an air filter as often as is suggested. Just my experience... YMMV.

    BTW- The engine in my old 78 1/2 ton short wheelbase Chevy K-truck was a very well built 355 (not by me but for me), it ran on 39/15-15 MT Baja's (old style bias) tires with a 6" lift, traction bars, granny low 4-speed, 205 t-case and a rear limited slip. The rear was a 14 bolt because 12 bolts could just not handle it on the street, I ripped a couple apart before I got wise, and the front was a Dana 44 (not a corporate 10 bolt).

    The engine in my current 75 Chevy is also a very well built 355 (also not by me). Both were built by what I call speed shops that do that sort of work for racers and they cost a lot of dollars, with a lot of good quality parts and attention to detail. It's still a project in the making however. I might end up pulling the engine and chucking the truck and find a nice old CJ7 to put the engine into.
     
  3. Dudeth

    Dudeth Full Access Members

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    I do have the IAC valve. What I'm missing is the little coupler/adapter that goes on the end of the IAC hose and allows the hose to join into the Air Intake right in front of the throttle body. You have a zip tie on the piece that I'm missing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
  4. Dudeth

    Dudeth Full Access Members

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    Here's one: https://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

    "Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons."

    "The other filters, most notably the oiled reusable types, had an exponential loading response before reaching maximum restriction. These filters had a lower initial restriction, but they became exponentially more restrictive under a constant flow of dirt.

    This runs counter to the “myth” that oiled media filters actually “work better” as they get dirtier."
     
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  5. Randy-IA

    Randy-IA Active Member

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    That was very enlightening! Thank you!

    So at first glance one would perceive that the AC filter would be the go-to for keeping an engine clean and they would be right. Unfortunately, the tradeoff is lack of flow. The only turbo's I'm familiar with are on semi's, I refuse to own a vehicle with one on it (still).

    The K&N is surprising across the board. I guess I'll rethink my use of it since I don't do any water/mud playing anymore.

    Nevertheless, one of the reason's I used it back in the day was because it was on a truck that spent a great deal of time in mud and water and it worked just the way I expected it to. It repelled water and mud did not clog it instantly. If it got too much mud on it simply taking it off and rinsing it off with whatever clean(ish) water was available and you were back in business.

    But as the article say's, marketing honesty went the way of the dodo decades ago. Old habits don't change just because...normally new info has to be learned to counter what the initial info claimed.

    Thanks again.

    Now what do I do with my freshly purchased K&N filter cleaning kit....
     
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  6. Dudeth

    Dudeth Full Access Members

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    Not a problem! I used to be a fan of K&N as well. I'll be putting my K&N system on ebay as soon as it's off.
     
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  7. Darryl Ackimenko

    Darryl Ackimenko Member

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    You can buy a non oiled k&n filter!! I bought a few for my pickups running on gravel roads all the time! Check with a a k&n dealer may have to order it for you!!
     
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  8. Randy-IA

    Randy-IA Active Member

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    Or, just buy a K&N and wash the oil out....But might not be the same.

    Since the K&N now has a mark against it's reputation in my book will I run out and buy a paper filter? Probably not. Old habits, even when proven wrong, are hard to quit. For instance, my Doctor tells me I need to stop eating a half pound of salt daily...Not gonna happen!
     
  9. Dudeth

    Dudeth Full Access Members

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    Does anyone know what that adapter piece is called or where to find it?



    I checked all of them on the website and couldn't find a paper one like mine.

    Yeah I wouldn't trust removing the oil.

    I really wouldn't trust the engineering behind the air intake system itself either as compared with OEM. I doubt the engineers at K&N have the same budgets as Ford. I wonder if anyone has done any flow comparisons...
     
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  10. Randy-IA

    Randy-IA Active Member

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    You have to realize that car companies have a multitude of regulations to make the vehicles conform to. One being so-called 'noise' laws. The exhaust noise is one thing, but intake noise is also severely regulated these days.

    My expe has two "cans" bulbing off the intake tract doing nothing of consequence that I can see except requiring that much extra plastic in the build. All they are there for (IMHO) is to break up harmonics from the intake tract (they help make it quieter). Apparently that intake wooshing sound is objectionable to some nursing home residents.

    I'm no expert on fluid dynamics but air rushing past a hole in the side of a tract is going to depressurize the area beyond the hole, in this case one of the open liver shaped boxes on the side of the intake. I've heard some call it a reservoir. HUH? An wind reservoir? That works for vacuum or pressure but not for moving air. I've never seen anything that can store wind.

    So,whether this empty boxed area has any actual usefulness beyond breaking up noise I can't answer, but for the life of me I can't figure out any other purpose for them.

    My point is the OEM is a compromise at best. Piping air with smooth large radius bends will eliminate turbulence in the air stream. The slicker the inner walls of the tube the easier the air stream flows also. The sides of any tubing no matter the diameter cause restrictions to air flow. Friction is the cause of that. The boundary layer in contact with the outer diameter of the flow path slows the entire flow down. Now look at all the corrugations, joint's, flex tubes, and holes and bends in a stock system. It's a wonder any air gets to the intake at all.

    Put a simple pipe in the inlet of the intake mouth, put a filter that has very little resistance to air movement through it and the air stream into the intake is going to be much faster with less turbulence. Turbulence is the mixing you get when stirring a glass of something, it's not something you want in this portion of the intake system. Once the air gets past the intake valves is where more turbulence is better.

    The entire idea is to get as much laminar (smooth) flow of air to the mouth of the intake as is possible at all times. For comparison, look at the intake tract on a big (semi) truck engine. A supersized filter, then round metal or plastic tubing with smooth radii going to the turbo, then even smoother round(ish) shaped tubing going from the turbo to maybe an inter-cooler and then back into more round(ish tubing where it can straighten its flow out before getting to the intake. A diesel is normally fed as much or more air than it can use. The turbo packs as much into a cylinder as the design allows.

    The same can be said for a throttled engine. More air is good as long as the amount of fuel is capable of making a stoichiometric mixture then all things work better. This is where the aftermarket cold air intakes shine. Colder air is denser therefore there's more of it in a given volume. Which is a sloppy way of describing it.

    The round tubing flows better than all the bends and irregularities of the OEM intake. The implementation in actuality is still a compromise. An OEM pulls air in from (normally) inside a front fender opening. This spot is better than most aftermarket systems that try to isolate the intake filter inside the engine compartment off to the side by a fender. This is actually a lousy place to pull air from even with the intended isolation panels. Especially considering the panels are often made of aluminum or thin sheet steel, neither of which don't really stop much heat transfer. But the objective is to get your money and at that work beautifully! Nevertheless, the front corner of the engine compartment is going to be cooler than anyplace else in the engine compartment so it remains a compromise.

    The ideal solution is those fording kits for overland expedition purpose built vehicles. They have two benefits, they can be placed in the forward facing position to help ram air into the intake tract at speed, and they pull much cooler air from many feet over the pavement. For fording deep water the intake is turned rearward so large water splash won't get sucked in or when it's raining really hard, although they do have automatic drains on them.

    In essence, a good flowing filter is necessary, a great flow path is a good thing too. As in all things automotive, the compromises are never ending. Great flowing filters apparently don't filter very good, and great filtering filters don't flow all that good.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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