New Engine / Motor

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Joe Befumo

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...
Good luck!

Oh yeah, do NOT assume that "Oh, while I'm doing it, why don't I just go for that larger small-block, or a different year, or ...." because you WILL get burned in amazing ways, and won't realize it until you try to make that very last connection ..... The whole undertaking is risky enough without introducing additional variables ....
 

rjdelp7

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Try some block/head gasket sealers. I heard they can work. Your converters may be toast. The burning coolant may of ruined them. Find a wrecked 'donor' vehicle. You may find one with 130K or less, cheap.
 

the bus

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That's a tough call... If it is has no rust and everything else works it may be a good idea. plus you already know all the history too. I justified it with the cost of a brand new one.
I did a Ford remaned with the 3yr warranty and had a head fail. It was replaced under the warranty. So far have about 65k on it so far. 4.6l in a gen 2.
 

TobyU

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To continue on what someone else said about buying two or three junkyard engines the price of one reman one, the reason some people don't do this is because they are afraid to take the chance or they like guarantees. If you are on the side of safety or always purchase the guarantee or whatever I can guarantee you one thing... You always spend more money. Now whether or not you spend more money than the guy who gambled and lost I can't say. He might have to lose two to three times to equal what you spent the first time. Then people get into saying that my time and convenience is worth money. Not to me. The only thing that is worth money is money.
I do complain about having to fix things and stuff like that but I can say it's just like going through 12 years of school as a kid. I hated school although I did very well there. It was the longest thing in my life but once it was over it didn't feel like any big deal. That's how life and time works. So even though I have a vehicle that I personally switched the motor myself and drove an hour and a half away to get the replacement and back, it was pain when I was doing it but now I can hardly remember it. Now, the only thing that matters is the money I have in the vehicle and how much I recover when I sell it. So the work or inconvenience just gets absorbed by time.
 

and0r

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do cyclinders need to actually be perfectly smooth? so long as they are not damaged near the surface where compression takes place. they should work fine. though you do need that crosshatch on the walls. and there is no retail honing bit which properly does this. not the way ford does it. but.... probably get by on just a regular crosshatch.
a 300$ rebuild kit should do it, if you polish the crank journals yourself, and MAYBE take it in to get it balanced on an actual machine (should cost 50$)
heads can be resurfaced by hand also, all you need is a perfectly flat bar

valves can be done by hand too, with a rotary tool, or something similar
 

1955moose

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The better cylinder hones like Sunnen, and Snap on come closer than most. But I've found that unless the honing job is done with a machine shop hone, like a Sunnen professional, the motors never quite seal right. Building a motor is more than slapping in new piston rings and bearings. Their are critical measurements, and proper assembly procedures. Then if all is right there, you've got the first 20 minute run in. Very important on non roller camshafts. How bout the right start up/break in oil. All these things are so important. Now you know why dealer Ford drop-ins are a go to. Bottom line they work. As to your question and or about cylinders being perfect? Yeah they kinda do, if you want to see 200k or more. It's a cohesive unit of parts, guess that's the right words. It's like the human body, it all gels together. What good would your top end do, chest, heart, shoulders, if your hips, and legs, and feet didn't work. Top half is raring to go, but bottom end is wheelchair only!

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TobyU

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do cyclinders need to actually be perfectly smooth? so long as they are not damaged near the surface where compression takes place. they should work fine. though you do need that crosshatch on the walls. and there is no retail honing bit which properly does this. not the way ford does it. but.... probably get by on just a regular crosshatch.
a 300$ rebuild kit should do it, if you polish the crank journals yourself, and MAYBE take it in to get it balanced on an actual machine (should cost 50$)
heads can be resurfaced by hand also, all you need is a perfectly flat bar

valves can be done by hand too, with a rotary tool, or something similar

Some of these things it just doesn't work to take shortcuts with. The most important part is for the cylinder to be round. So if it's not you have to bore it. I have done plenty of engines that were just freshening them up and ran a home or a ball hone in them for 20 or 30 seconds installed new rings and I've never had any problems with them sealing or having proper compression.
I was building all these in the day where Molly Rings were all the rage. Then later just a top Molly ring was common. Everyone has their opinion and often people said cast rings are better because Molly had a hard time ceiling but I basically just use TRW, sealed power, or better I think Hastings rings a bell, and never had any problems.
If the cylinder is perfectly round and you give it a decent hone then the Rings will seat but no matter how good the Finish is on the cylinder if it's not perfectly round they will not seal. I had a block messed up one time because the guy had a boring machine mess up and had to switch machines so two of my cylinders were way out of round.
There is no way you should consider doing any Milling two heads by yourself.
If they are aluminum you could clean them up a little bit but you're not going to take care of any warping issues at all.
I used coarse sandpaper on a steel plate and I mean like three pieces of sandpaper taped down to it on a Suzuki Samurai aluminum head one time when it blew a head gasket and sanded and sanded probably still didn't take . 008-.010 off.
Clean them up is one thing but mailing one that's warped you need to go ahead and pay the money and have it a surface cut.
Most of the time valves are just fine so if you want to slap them in to make them feel a little bit better you're not hurting anything but it's probably more a waste of time and everything else.
It's the guides that are often way loose and the seals need replaced so they won't blow so much oil. It's also best just to have the heads done at a machine shop.
The cost do add up but the cost involved with getting a motor Replaced is all about paying big money for the reman engine and the labor to install. When you're doing a labor yourself and not buying a package engine you can do it much cheaper.
Of course if it's a small block Chevy they was always the cheapest one to do.
The magazines always had those cheap rebuild kit but I never bothered with them. Too many cheap gaskets and stuff like that. Cheap parts.
I freshened up a 350 truck motor probably about a 77 model year back in 2000 for a fiberglass body jeep that I purchased without an engine.
Reused the factory pistons just honed out the block with a drill and put new rings and it. I had a buddy hot tank the old block and put new cam bearings in it that wasn't too much money.
New oil pump, new rings, new Main and rod bearings, the cam bearings, painted the intake aluminum to look like an aluminum one, painted the block bright red, my buddy milled the heads and did a complete valve job for a little over a hundred bucks, splurged and put an Edelbrock Chrome kit and huge Moroso Chrome air filter on it, new distributor cap and rotor spark plugs and pretty blue spark plug wires oh, I think I had to put the terminals on myself from a set from Pep Boys so I can get the color I wanted... basic gaskets or I might have got one of the head sets, I always use Fel-Pro.
And I put a 6999 crane cam 327 350 horsepower in it or whatever that cheap Saturday night special one was.
I paid a hundred bucks for the engine sitting on guys garage floor few miles away and with all the parts and everything had a total of 620 in the complete project.
Didn't have a cherry picker at the time but I didn't have to rent one since it was a Jeep. Fiberglass body so the fenders unbolt with three or four bolts. All it was there once you take the radiator out were two frame rails about knee level high. We just wrapped one of those yellow Towing straps around the engine and stuck a long piece of galvanized inch and a half pipe through it and we lifted it up and walked it back on to the cradle.
I did had about a 20% discount on all of those parts so that helped some.
 

and0r

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The better cylinder hones like Sunnen, and Snap on come closer than most. But I've found that unless the honing job is done with a machine shop hone, like a Sunnen professional, the motors never quite seal right. Building a motor is more than slapping in new piston rings and bearings. Their are critical measurements, and proper assembly procedures. Then if all is right there, you've got the first 20 minute run in. Very important on non roller camshafts. How bout the right start up/break in oil. All these things are so important. Now you know why dealer Ford drop-ins are a go to. Bottom line they work. As to your question and or about cylinders being perfect? Yeah they kinda do, if you want to see 200k or more. It's a cohesive unit of parts, guess that's the right words. It's like the human body, it all gels together. What good would your top end do, chest, heart, shoulders, if your hips, and legs, and feet didn't work. Top half is raring to go, but bottom end is wheelchair only!

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now wait a minute,
ive been thinking about a first start
should be fine with normal oil, heated, then pump injected, as a pre-lube. one of those tiny HF sand blasters can easily inject the oil. though the trick is getting your truck to always start this way!
 

TobyU

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Well in the old days or any vehicle with a distributor driven oil pump we would prelube them this way. Not that I ever had the actual part but I had a nice big flat screwdriver I had ground down that fit in there and work just fine.
I used assembly Lube many times and then other times I used 20w 50 or 30 weight oil mixed with STP one to one.
 

1955moose

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If your reusing cams and rockers regular oil will work, but it's always a smart bet on first fire up to use a high zinc oil. In earlier days, say 2005 or earlier people used diesel oil because of the zinc. These days diesel oil doesn't have the zinc like they used to. Toby's right about priming the old pushrod motors. Don't know how they preprime the 5.4, maybe someone here can elaborate on that. As to your original question about out of round cylinder sealing? It's a crap shoot. How long are you going to run this Motor? Are you selling it soon? Anytime you cheat on building a motor or Transmission, it usually will come back to bite you in the ass, sooner than later. It's your SUV, we only give our opinion. You gotta go with your gut, and your wallet.

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and0r

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If your reusing cams and rockers regular oil will work, but it's always a smart bet on first fire up to use a high zinc oil. In earlier days, say 2005 or earlier people used diesel oil because of the zinc. These days diesel oil doesn't have the zinc like they used to. Toby's right about priming the old pushrod motors. Don't know how they preprime the 5.4, maybe someone here can elaborate on that. As to your original question about out of round cylinder sealing? It's a crap shoot. How long are you going to run this Motor? Are you selling it soon? Anytime you cheat on building a motor or Transmission, it usually will come back to bite you in the ass, sooner than later. It's your SUV, we only give our opinion. You gotta go with your gut, and your wallet.

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idk
maybe go through the PCV to prelube
the top half of the engine is very tough to lubricate externally,
hard to replace the internal action of pump lines which do the cams

though a sandblaster is pressurized,
so its really just a question of if the PCV or whatever other option, has access to the top half
 

TobyU

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Can't do anything with pcv really. That just goes into valve cover. You should pour some oil onto the rockers and stuff before you put covers on.
Fill oil filter with oil.
Only way to prelube is buy a preluber or make one up. You can pump oil through at oil filter with filter off or sending unit and some have other plugs in oil filter adapter or side of block into oil galley that you could pump oil into if you have or rig up a pump.
In reality if you prefill filter and have it filled to full on dipstick, you should be fine. I would only let it run for about 4-5 seconds on first and 2nd start though. Then on 3rd let it go and watch pressure gauge.
These roller cams don't wear lobes so oil with zinc isn't a concern. The old ones and ALL flat tappet cams ESPECIALLY today MUST have valvoline vr1 racing or diesel or Brad Penn or zinc additive or you are taking BIG chances with wiping out a cam.
When they went to SN oil, the cam manufacturers statement was they had more cam failures in 2 years than in the previous 20!
Flat tappets have to be above 2200 RPM as soon as you start it and vary slightly above up and down but never below 2000 for first 20 mins.
 

and0r

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does anyone know if cranking the engine before it starts circulates any oil?

is the RPM too low for the pump?
 

1955moose

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If your building a motor, I've always used assembly lube on crank bearings, and cam lobes. Pistons I'd oil real well before compressing rings. Also plenty oil on all cylinders walls. Then as Toby said pour some oil over rocker area before valve covers go on. Do that and fill the oil filter, and your golden till oil pump does it's thing. Your motor will be pumping it's heart out within 5 seconds, plenty of time, for safe startup.

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TobyU

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On these you can do whatever makes you feel better. If you're going to crank it over pull out the spark plugs. Cranks over much quicker but in reality it doesn't matter. And the old days with an any motor with a flat tappet cam you do not want to crank it to build oil pressure. You want it to start instantly with little to no cranking and get the RPMs up quickly. It would take a long time cranking and then it would push little oil all the way up to the cam bearings and the valve train on a flat tappet cam. This is why it needs to start and run at full speed and they want the RPMs above 2000 for the speed and the whole cam break in polishing and kind of tempering the lobes and lifters.
With roller leftovers or cams like the Modular Fords have with no axle metal to metal scraping of the lifter to the camp there's not going to be any problem with lubrication up there either.
You just want to fire it up and get the RPMs up to probably 1300 to 1500 and make sure your oil pressure comes up and the first six or seven seconds.
Some people like to start them and let them run for about 3 to 4 seconds then turn them off and then restart and maybe do this twice. By the second or third restart the oil pressure gauge should come up.
Then after you know all is okay and you start driving it and keep an eye out for leaks and stuff, you want to only put 200 to 300 miles I would say definitely no more than 500 on it and then change the oil.
 

Rich_007

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This side note may or may not be of interest:
I recently read on here somewhere that the oil pressure gauge is fake news. Basically an idiot light input wired to a gauge. So you really aren't seeing pressure, just a pass/fail indication. (gauge either reads zero or perfect, nothing in-between)
Since I read that I watched mine (2001 5.4) and that appears to be true. I have had a lot of vehicles over the years and have always been able to discern some degree of fluctuation on an oil pressure gauge during different conditions, like start up, or rpms, etc...
I am just mentioning this since it sounds like somebody may be monitoring oil pressure during that first critical startup after an assembly.
Good Luck
Rich
 

TobyU

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Yes, that is true on a lot of cars. I just meant to watch it same as red warning oil pressure light just to make sure you have pressure.
 
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