Newbie question - CCD or Load Leveling for 7000lb+ Travel Trailer

[MostlyHarmless]

Guys

This is my first post on the forum and I look forward to getting more involved.

My family has decided that we are going to get a travel trailer and do some vacations exploring our great country. We are looking at a trailer about 7,000lb gross weight, which with 5 of us in the car and 2 labradors will probably take us to about 8,000lb of total weight being carried.

I do not currently have an Expedition and I am just starting my search for one of the last 2017s left in dealer stock.

The question I have is whether I would be better getting a Platinum with the CCD or a Limited with the Load Leveling suspension for the weight I am planning to tow? Not being an expert on Expeditions I am confused about what would be the best route for me. Right now I could go either way as both options are available to me.

Obviously I will also need the heavy duty tow package whichever direction I go, and a good quality weight distributing hitch.

All advice will be greatly appreciated and apologies if this question has been asked before

Thanks

Mark

 

[1997SCEBFEX]

welcome aboard.
i'm sure you've looked @: what is the combined gross vehicle weight rating?

 

[deweysmith]

That's a touch choice. I have no experience with the CCD system, but I love love love the air ride on my 2012. It rides nice empty, or with 6 smelly teenagers and myself packed in there. Pulling a trailer, or loaded down with gear, it handles pretty much the same (except for the brakes, hehe.)

I think I would rather have that than CCD, but like I said, I have no experience with it. Staying level all the time is really nice.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

Thank you both for your responses.

Yes I’ve looked at the Combined weight. I am going to be close to 9,000 CGVW but will be within the limits of the vehicle. But that’s why I am interested in real world experience of both systems. The closer I get to the weight limit the more “sensitive” the towing experience will be.

I have experience of a load leveling system in previous SUVs and Wagons (I’m originally from Europe where towing with a large Station Wagon is still very popular)

So I know what load leveling will do for me, what I don’t know is whether CCD will replicate some of the functionality of Load leveling when towing a heavy load or whether it’s really just a ride quality mechanism

Thanks, and looking forward to contributing to the forum

Mark

 

[deweysmith]

There's a thread about this over on ford-trucks.com that could be helpful. Seems like CCD does a pretty good job of leveling… weight distributing hitch probably helps a bunch.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

Thanks Dewey

That’s a useful thread, good to read some real world experience. Surprisingly little data on the CCD set up but guessing that most people get the Limited with Load Leveling as it is a much more cost effective vehicle

At the moment deals on the remaining 17s are great so I am leaning towards a Platinum

Thanks

Mark

 

[theoldwizard1]

The big issue with the Continuously Controlled Damping (CCD) system is the wheels and tires. At least on the 2018 Expedition, CCD include 22" rims. The HD Trailer Tow package inclue and requires 18" rims. Therefore you can not have both.

The 2017 (and pretty sure 2018) Expeditions, include Nivomat rear shocks. This is a mechanical load leveling system and the reason why air spring suspension is no longer an option.

Clearly, your still need a good quality load leveling hitch. Gross towing (with HD Trailer Tow option) is about 9,000 lbs and Gross Combine (GCWR) is about 15,000 lbs for both 2017 and 2018.

The big advantage on the 2018 is the 10 speed transmission.

 

[MrTommy]

We are looking at a trailer about 7,000lb gross weight, which with 5 of us in the car and 2 labradors will probably take us to about 8,000lb of total weight being carried.

Frankly, I think with a total of 8,000 pounds of trailer you're going to be close to trouble with an Expedition. Power, brakes, and towing capacity. We have a travel trailer (2012 Arctic Fox 25Y) and tow it with a 1997 F-350 crew cab Powerstroke diesel, and with several engine modifications (and a chip) we still experience some uphill issues when going over thousands of feet of elevation. It weighs close to 8,000 pounds loaded with all our crap.Then the downhill issues come up with inadequate brakes. I solved some of our problems by installing an exhaust brake and getting the trailer brakes upgraded to discs.

We will be towing our Polaris rzr in an enclosed trailer behind our 2014 Expedition and I'm not all that impressed with the engine when towing, and that's a dinky 14 foot trailer with a 1,000 pound side-by-side.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Frankly, I think with a total of 8,000 pounds of trailer you're going to be close to trouble with an Expedition. Power, brakes, and towing capacity. We have a travel trailer (2012 Arctic Fox 25Y) and tow it with a 1997 F-350 crew cab Powerstroke diesel, and with several engine modifications (and a chip) we still experience some uphill issues when going over thousands of feet of elevation.

Engine braking on a gasoline engine is very different. Besides, ownhill braking should be handled by the properly adjusted trailer brakes.

We will be towing our Polaris rzr in an enclosed trailer behind our 2014 Expedition and I'm not all that impressed with the engine when towing, and that's a dinky 14 foot trailer with a 1,000 pound side-by-side.

What engine, what transmission and what rear axle ratio ? Thenew 10 speed and 3.73 final gear ratio make a big difference.

Admittedly, the Expedition is a heavy beast and a fully loaded EL/Max would likely hit the 15,000 lbs GCWR before you hit the 9,000 lbs trailer limit.

 

[MrTommy]

What engine, what transmission and what rear axle ratio ? Thenew 10 speed and 3.73 final gear ratio make a big difference..

Good question(s). We've only had the 2014 for five days now. Guess I'll have to look that stuff up. Haven't had a chance to use the "tow - haul" option yet either. This is all new stuff to me. Our new-to-us Expedition is SO far ahead of our old 2004 Expedition technologically speaking that much of it boggles my mind. Ha. But we've been doing a lot of "RTFM'ing" and slowly coming up to speed. Emphasis on "slowly".

 

[autoarcheologist]

We put over 12000 miles on a 2004 Tahoe and 6000 lb trailer. Having a properly set up WD hitch will be key and good trailer brakes that are properly dialed in.

Frankly I think most tow ratings are black magic and marketing. But a few aren't. Like tire load ratings, and axle load ratings. These are rear world, measurable data points.

I'm worried about your tongue weight. I'm assuming it will be over 1000 lbs. Plus 1000 lbs of people. Can it handle 2000 lbs? You might want to consider a lighter trailer. But see if you can get a rear tongue weight from a dealer. Not the BS marketing spec weight, but actual weight with a battery, full propane tanks, stuff inside, etc.

Good luck! Once dialed in our Tahoe towed like a dream, we could forget it was back there. A newer Expy should be even better. Just watch those axle and tire ratings.

 

[MrTommy]

But see if you can get a rear tongue weight from a dealer. Not the BS marketing spec weight, but actual weight with a battery, full propane tanks, stuff inside, etc.

Good luck with that! Great advice, but I've never been to an RV dealer who had a scale - and I'm guessing that's on purpose.

I'd never had the opportunity to weigh just the tongue weight on our TT. I've weighed axles at closed state truck scales before but never took the time to unhook, drive up off the scale, check the weight, back up, re-hook, and move on. But, we just had a truck scale added to a local Maverick gas station in our neighborhood. I took the time to un-hook and get the tongue weighed. Wow. Just a hair under 1200 pounds. That's with two 6 volt batteries, full propane tanks, and water (though the water is over our axles). Nice to know, finally. But, we're not towing that with our Expedition. Our Pick up handles that. I'm just saying, because of the mention of getting a tongue weight from an RV dealer.

 

[deweysmith]

Haven't had a chance to use the "tow - haul" option yet either.

It's amazing, I love it so much. Even with just a load of 6 teenagers, it helps so much. It engine brakes quite well and the extra time in the lower gears helps a lot. I notice in just a minute or two if I forget to turn it on, that's how nice it is.

 

[mwells]

I have a 2014 Expy Limited EL. Supposedly my Sunnybrook RL27 weighed 6100 pounds at delivery. The max tongue weight on the Expy with weight distributing hitch is 910#. I bought a tongue scale ( although you can make one with a bathroom scale if you search the web) and after loading the trailer I weighed it. Was I surprised! Instead of the 10 to 13 percent most will tell you to calculate for tongue weight, the actual weight was close to 1100 pounds.
This called for a lot of cargo shifting in my rear living room trailer, especially to locations behind the trailer axles. This is a major consideration not many, if any, trailer salespeople will address honestly. Weight shifting and carrying some 160# of fresh water in the fw tank behind the axles brought me to a safe tongue weight, and did the addition of a frame attached rear cargo carrier.
I do not recommend exceeding more than 80% of the max towing limit. I have traveled with this combo through the Rockies, the and the Smokies. and more with little to no problems, both up and down. Tow-Haul required without a doubt. Remember to DRIVE THE TRUCK, don't just depend on the computer to do the down shifting or engine braking.

 

[B-McD]

MostlyHarmless - I have a 2016 Platinum with CCD and the 22" wheels. Also have the HD Tow package - std that year on the Platinum. I'm just a bit under your towing weight and use a WDH setup. I leave the suspension set at Normal, but I did try Sport once to see if it made any difference. None that I could tell. The WDH handles most of the issue with any sagging. I don't think the CCD does any leveling that I can find. When I get new tires I will go with ones that have a higher load rating just to be safer, but the stock Pirelli's have done fine so far with about 4000 miles of towing on them.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

B-McD

Thanks for taking the time to respond - that's the kind of real world experience I was looking for

Cheers!

Mark

 

[Charlie Vretis]

The big issue with the Continuously Controlled Damping (CCD) system is the wheels and tires. At least on the 2018 Expedition, CCD include 22" rims. The HD Trailer Tow package inclue and requires 18" rims. Therefore you can not have both.

Do you know if this also applies to the 2021 model year? We have the CCD and also the HD towing.

 

[FlyBry]

Does not apply