The death of the v65 magna and sabre was ensured in no small part to that, and it's superior rubber band chassis, that felt as though there was a pivot section of the frame, directly behind the engine, but ahead of the rear wheel. Scariest ride ever, 1986 v65 magna dropping speed from 100+ at end of quarter mile, with limited runoff room. Panic braking on that thing from above 55mph+ was very unpleasant, nearly impossible to accomplish without eventually hitting whatever you were trying to avoid.
Oil analysis as a predictor for cam phaser/timing chain/cam/follower issues?
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I'll have to confirm this with the Mini Cooper and Honda Accord we have, both are manual transmissions. I could swear the Odyssey I had which had keyless ignition, would allow killing ignition via button, IF in neutral or park.
JExpedition07
That One Member
I’ve turned my truck off via key in neutral before, and also have turned it off in drive. The vehicle will shut down it just won’t allow you to remove the key from the ignition until you shift to park.
Biggest problem I have with this video is the fact that there's a need to be proactive on a vehicle with a hundred sixty-eight thousand miles and change the timing components and tensioners. And that vehicles have failures even before this many miles.
I guess I will blame it on the push for more fuel mileage but it makes me so mad when manufacturers and companies and everything else in the world keeps changing things when it's not broke. You know that expression...
I'm quite happy with my 4.6 gas mileage in my town car and I have never Hattie Town Car and rarely even heard of one that had any timing component issues are failures. These things always go 200 - 225,000 miles with hardly any repairs especially no internal engine repairs. Some people don't even change the oil on these and they go that long.
That's the whole reason I hate and won't own a car with a timing belt. And I also hated the nylon coated gears back in the seventies that always ended up being replaced.
There is zero reason a manufacture can't make timing chain and components that will outlast the life of any engine. But they don't want to make one that'll last 500,000 Miles when people only keep cars maximum of 250. That would be a waste of money for them now wouldn't it?
It seems they wouldn't over build something even if it cost them less because they still want the repairs to be done in the future to keep the money wheel turning.
I have read another comment or two in the past few months and I fear it's going to be true, that we're going to see a major reduction in trouble free long life automobile engines in the future. I don't know if it's the ones being made right now that will be having lots of problems in for 5 years or what time frame but it does seem like after a couple of decades of engines getting better and better and lasting longer and longer that it's going to start to go the other way.
There is zero reason for this to happen but they keep pushing for more and more fuel mileage, oils with less zinc and phosphorus and thinner weights Etc and of course always trying to save money in production cost so they can make more profit. It makes my view of the future of autos pretty gloomy.
The only positive for me is that I never have or buy newer vehicles. By the time I'm willing to pay what they're going for they are well over 10 years old so I will have time to figure out which ones to avoid or they will already have improved the designs and figured out ways to fix the problems and I can buy ones that have already had the bugs worked out.
Occasionally I envy people who can afford new cars and car payments because they have that warranty but I'm not so certain. That is all what it's cracked up to be.
The mindset is you have a nice newer vehicle under 3 years old you never have any concern when you go out and put the key in the ignition and turn it oh, WAIT, you don't do that anymore in most cars , and I HATE that too.... but you have no fear not even in the back of your mind that it's not going to start perfectly and drive perfectly and get you where you need to go and get back. I am way too off and on pins and needles just wondering when the next thing is going to give me a problem or what might happen. But it seems often people have problems even major ones under warranty and it can be a real nightmare and sometimes a vehicle is never the same long-term.
That's why I stay with the tried-and-true vehicles that I have found that are just really darn durable. I'm not much of an import person but they are a lot of great ones of those too but I have basically stuck with Lincoln Town Cars because from 1996 and up they routinely go 300 to 400 thousand miles on the original Engines & Transmissions.
I have owned and serviced many and I have a friend who has owned over 400 and he has never had a timing chain or timing component issue or failure.
When you start reading articles and stuff about the 4.6 since they quit making it you'll hear people give them lower ratings because of some of the little things most all them had issues with but that's nothing compared to these major repairs. Yes, a lot of people got hosed for 1200 to almost $2,000 to have their plastic intake manifold replaced but a lot of people also bought them for under $200 and replaced them themselves and an afternoon.
And with the newer ones you already got the good and take that will probably never fail. So a possible intake, and alternator or two which will be lifetime warranty after you buy the first one and takes 10 minutes to replace, a starter somewhere between 150 and 200 thousand miles, eventually and oil filter adapter gasket which cost all of $13, coils and plugs probably only once maybe twice at most in the complete ownership which I've been super cheap on eBay for 10 years now.
Give me a 4.6 any day. Never seen any spark plug threads damaged. My friend was over 400 Town Cars has only had one plug blow out and it must have just been loose and worked all the way out and then blew. There were plenty of threads and they were not damaged unlike what the 5.4s on 6.8s often do.
JExpedition07
That One Member
I agree their are issues associated with the VCT systems. But there are also benefits besides fuel economy (increased and broader powerband).
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Yes but my Odyssey was keyless ignition. No key, push button start. Fairly sure it would let you push button, after it was running, if it was in neutral. Not sure if it would let you do it, if it was on the move though.
EDIT...the Expedition transmission selector knob, might go to neutral while "on the fly" but it will not let you turn the ignition off. I'm fairly certain the Odyssey with auto trans and push button start would let you pop it in neutral and push ignition button, killing the engine, if you needed to in order to minimize engine damage.
That's a real problem if all push button ignition systems, with automatic transmissions are all programmed against turning the engine off while on the move, even if neutral is selected first.
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Just follow the owners manual. Use 5w20, like it says. Ford knows more about there engines that you do. Only a flaming idiot, would go 15,000mi and worry then about engine failures. Don't waste people's time with this stupidity.
Motorcraft filters are manufactured by Champ(aka champion), to Ford spec. Plenty of better alternatives out there.
Trainmaster
Old School Member
These comments agree with my thoughts exactly. There comes a time when manufacturers become too embraced with new technology. Often it's unproven and sometime it sucks. That's why, if you buy cars for the long haul, you avoid early releases of new models.
I'm afraid that Toby hits on the truth with a coming decline in engine longevity. But we are seeing the breakdown of much quality manufacturing these days and fewer products are built to last.
Be governed accordingly, as they say. Buy good, tried and true technology. Avoid the fads and glitter, unless bragging to idiots is important to you.
I'm afraid that Toby hits on the truth with a coming decline in engine longevity. But we are seeing the breakdown of much quality manufacturing these days and fewer products are built to last.
Be governed accordingly, as they say. Buy good, tried and true technology. Avoid the fads and glitter, unless bragging to idiots is important to you.
I feel the same way, but I severely discounted the idea of the '18 being "all new", to me it never really looked much different than the '15-'17 models. As such, I figured having the second generation 3.5 Ecoboost in the '18 they would have engineered away the problems plaguing the 1st generation of this engine. Unfortunately I should have dug deeper on the F-150 forums, prior to buying and I would have found plenty of information on what I suspect to be the gremlin present in my '18. I'd have bought a V8 crewcab with longbed, of some manufacturer instead of rolling the dice.
Don't miss construe my disappointment with crying, I'm not. I'm just sharing what I've learned after the fact, hopefully to other's benefit to have additional information to make their decision.
All manufacturers have problems, one year to the next there are recalls, TSB's, etc.
Honda has recently had problems with a "no start" condition with the keyless ignition system in the prior to now generation (2013-?) Accord. Yet my wife's '14 we bought new, now with almost 50k miles, has never had this affliction. Aside from Ford, I've never experienced a catastrophic failure, sooooo early in ownership. Overall I can only remember my 1992 z-28 having the need for a new tranny around 85000 miles, but never anything else 5.7 liter V8 was a boss, long after.
I had a Focus with the twin clutch tranny, it never went to the dragstrip, only used as a commuter car when we lived in North Texas, it too shit the bed around 6,500 miles, (tranny) was a 2012, also "all new"... coincidence?
Probably so, but I can't help but find it at least a little odd, that I'm 2 for 2 with Ford's, both had less than 10,000 miles, and they were new purchases, within a decade of each other.
JExpedition07
That One Member
My understanding is the gen 1 EcoBoost has a tendancy to stretch the timing chain as well as losing VCT phasers. I’ve also read this may be in part due to lack of oil pressure at hot idle.
To attempt to solve the timing chain stretch they went to dual chains on the gen 2 more like the 5.0 V8 and previous modular engines.
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BillAlex
Well-Known Member
I am one of the biggest believers in Mobil One Synthetic. From the day my Expy's are new, Mobil One goes in them at 5W-20 (it's written on the oil filler cap). I ran "old Blue" 216,000 pulled the pan to see how the Rod Connectors looked and my mechanic thought I had a brand new engine in there. Here is the trick. Regular oil changes along with a high end filter. Period. That boys and girls is the key to success. now a word about Mobil's Twenty Thousand mile synthetic oil; It's a myth. It was rated on twenty thousand miles of highway driving (consumer reports). My buddy who designs and builds Indie 500 engines (at $75,000 a copy) who probably knows more about engines than Detroit says that Highway mileage at 70 mph steady is barely using ten percent of the engines wear and tear as compared to city driving. He stated that Highway mileage at 20,000 miles (or 15,000 miles as the OP states) is equivalent of changing the oil 1,500 to Two Thousand miles in the City. Also, if you look at the fine print that Mobil One puts on each box of 20,000 mile oil you will see a legal disclaimer. It reads "follow the Manufacturers guidelines". If you don't, it could void the warrantee. Not one single manufacturer out there recommends 20,000 mile oil changes. If you don't, the Warrantee is Null and Void.
This sort of reminds me of every time I buy a new computer and with it, a complete set of instructions. Like so many other not so bright highly educated idiots, I always put the damned thing together without first reading the instructions. The manufacturer goes so far as printing out a full color (sometimes leather bound) instructions called "an owners manual" for all new Expedition owners. In there, is complete instructions on how to maintain your Expedition and how many miles you should go before changing the oil. I for one, tend to believe them. But then again, I have been wrong before. I voted for the wrong person for President. You figure out which one that was and half of you out there will be right.
This sort of reminds me of every time I buy a new computer and with it, a complete set of instructions. Like so many other not so bright highly educated idiots, I always put the damned thing together without first reading the instructions. The manufacturer goes so far as printing out a full color (sometimes leather bound) instructions called "an owners manual" for all new Expedition owners. In there, is complete instructions on how to maintain your Expedition and how many miles you should go before changing the oil. I for one, tend to believe them. But then again, I have been wrong before. I voted for the wrong person for President. You figure out which one that was and half of you out there will be right.
BillAlex
Well-Known Member
Follow the Owners manual and use Mobil One and you can't go wrong.
I am also a firm believer in fully synthetic oils and mobile one is probably my favorite especially with its price from Walmart. I don't however believed 5w 20 is the best oil for any of these engines. Even the mechanic and the video that was posted specifically states he also recommends 5w 30 instead of 5w 20. He apparently does them all the time and he says he used to work at a dealer and do a lot of warranty work there.
I do feel that 5 W 30 will give greater engine longevity and fewer problems and in many cases especially and temperatures 40 degrees and above or somewhere around there, 10w 30 would even be better.
Of course the oil viscosity discussion is almost as debated as oil brand and synthetic vs standard oil. There are even people out there that feel the best oil for these engines is a 5w 40 full synthetic and I also believe that would be better than a 5w 20.
I am never one to tout that the manufacturer or the engineers that made it no more than I do for other people.
They work under a different set of parameters and their goals are different than some of us. As someone mentioned when you buy a car for the Long Haul your goals are different then the engineer that made it or the manufacturer.
If Ford knows more than everyone else then why do they have an engine out there with an epidemic problem a timing chain and cam phaser issues?
So either they really don't have all the answers, they don't know how to make them last longer, or they don't want to.
Manufacturers often live by the theory of
"good enough".
The goal is to get past the warranty and to not break too much sooner or last too much longer than the other competitor's products.
I do feel that 5 W 30 will give greater engine longevity and fewer problems and in many cases especially and temperatures 40 degrees and above or somewhere around there, 10w 30 would even be better.
Of course the oil viscosity discussion is almost as debated as oil brand and synthetic vs standard oil. There are even people out there that feel the best oil for these engines is a 5w 40 full synthetic and I also believe that would be better than a 5w 20.
I am never one to tout that the manufacturer or the engineers that made it no more than I do for other people.
They work under a different set of parameters and their goals are different than some of us. As someone mentioned when you buy a car for the Long Haul your goals are different then the engineer that made it or the manufacturer.
If Ford knows more than everyone else then why do they have an engine out there with an epidemic problem a timing chain and cam phaser issues?
So either they really don't have all the answers, they don't know how to make them last longer, or they don't want to.
Manufacturers often live by the theory of
"good enough".
The goal is to get past the warranty and to not break too much sooner or last too much longer than the other competitor's products.
3 reasons. Poor/lack of maintenance. The chains are too long(Chevy LS uses a different style). Stupid owners using the wrong oil(too heavy) or driving a quart or more low, on a regular basis. You don't see these problems however,in other manufactures similar VCT engines.
David Kuchler
Member
Of course an oil analysis will identify an upcoming issue if they have been done from new, or have some baseline to compare too.
if they didn't provide tell tails signs of impending failure, people wouldn't pay the price.
Now identifying the impending failure is another story
if they didn't provide tell tails signs of impending failure, people wouldn't pay the price.
Now identifying the impending failure is another story
The real issue with the 5.4 is ****** engineering by over paid Ford engineer's that should know better than to install an under performing low volume, low pressure oil pump at the factory with the fix for that issue HERE, QUOTE, (305,000 Mile Ford 5.4L 3v Triton Engine Brought Back to Life After Melling M360HV Oil Pump Install) , ,AND then the Obama EPA regulation's that is driving all the high tec BS that every MFG is forced into trying to get to that "54.5 MPG CAFE standard by 2025" , so far with my 2007 @ only 120,000 miles ,no issues BUT I'm old school **** about changing oil at 5000 miles, oil's cheaper than barring's and shop labor, anyway a LOT of questions about all Ford vehicles can be found in this link , https://www.youtube.com/user/FordTechMakuloco/videos .
JExpedition07
That One Member
CAFE has tied the manufacturers arms behind their backs metaphorically. This is also very consumer driven, Sorry to be harsh but consumers are overwhelmingly stupid. When I’m in a dealer these stupid people eat it all up while they sign their life away for 6-8 years on a car they can’t afford. They can’t keep their cabinets full of food for the kids yet drive a $50,000 car. Or the others trade in or lease every 2 years so they don’t care about longevity or upkeep! These increasingly shallow people are just trading up to impress their deadbeat friends every few years. Vehicles are like phones now!
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JExpedition07
That One Member
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