P0172 with P0174 after changing COP/Plug for P0301

[Transporter]

OK, I have seen a couple threads on these Fault Codes and one with both. Nobody answered what resolved it.

Question: What can cause Bank 1 to be Too Rich while at the same time Bank 2 is TooLean? To me it should be something obvious that both have in common that could possibly give completely opposite engine running conditions. Any idea what that might be?

To not have these faults before getting the P0301, then changing the plug and COP on cylinder One, then driving about 75 miles to have P0172/174 pop up with a flashing service engine soon light and not be able to drive over 40MPH is odd to say the least.

Thoughts, suggestions, shotgun recommendations before giving up and taking it to a Ford Dealer?

 

[1955moose]

What year and engine size is said vehicle? It's possible you've got a vacuum or exaust leak causing a lean Condition, along with a malfunctioning o2 sensor or bad catalytic converter causing your rich condition on other side. First thing I'd do if it were my Expedition, would be to do a fuel pressure test, followed by a smoking of engine to find any intake/exaust leaks. Are you doing this work? Or are you just getting ammo for the shop your bringing it to?

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[Transporter]

Thanks Moose. I am trying to shotgun it before giving up and taking it to Ford. I do my own COPs, plugs, oil changes, and such.

2003 EB 4X4 5.4 2V heads

 

[Plati]

Could it be that elbow like I had on mine.
$50 says it is
https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/obdii-reader.34543/

accidentally bumped?

 

[1955moose]

Transporter, 3valve heads didn't show up till 2005 for Expeditions, 04 for F150. Get back when they hopefully figure it out. Yours is a strange one to diagnose.

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[Hamfisted]

Do you have access to a smoke test machine ? That would show any leaky vacuum hoses and such.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/152246518471?hash=item23729982c7

Did the 172/174 codes only show up AFTER you did the coil and plug change ? Code was not present before the change ?

 

[Transporter]

Don't have access to one of those. Does anybody rent them that you know of because I would probably need it less the an hour?

Yes the 172/174 was NOT present before changing Cylinder One plug & COP. I was thinking last night that I had one hell of a time getting the Triton cover back in place and screwed down. I really had to wiggle it and press down fairly hard to get the bolt lined up with the holes. Now I am wondering if I pulled a hose loose and damaged one of them since they are 15 years old.

 

[Transporter]

Transporter, 3valve heads didn't show up till 2005 for Expeditions, 04 for F150. Get back when they hopefully figure it out. Yours is a strange one to diagnose.

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It was a typo, look down at my signature line!

 

[Plati]

Mr Scott ..... Did you look at that PCV vacuum elbow?

 

[Transporter]

Doing that now. Visually checking all hoses. The side I had to force down was on the driver's side though. Thanks for the video.


@Hamfisted On the EVAP Smoke Machine, if I can't find one for rent, am I not better off shotgunning a bunch of hoses with that $150 since they are 15 years old anyway?

 

[Transporter]

Update:

The Elbow appears to be solid and in good condition as do all the hoses around it. I am wondering if they replaced them when I had the Heater valve switch above those hoses replaced two years ago when I had the dealer disconnect my rear heater and bypass it because it was leaking from the firewall to the rear heat exchanger and was going to be about two grand to fix. With 2 over 100 pound dogs in the back of the Expy, I am more apt to run the AC in the back during winter then the heat. The rear unit is permanently in AC mode controlled on and off by the overheat console switch so no more arm and switch replacements in the back every 3 years with that damn clicking. I bet somebody that copied those plastic Ford parts for that rear ac unit and die cast them in aluminum could retire in 5 years!

Anyway, on to the driver's side where I had to apply the pressure to get the Triton cover back on. I have one long hose that runs up to a device with a green and a yellow hose fitting that is mounted on the firewall (it can be seen in the video on the very extreme upper right at about the 4 minute mark when he pulls the camera back. The upper hose connecting to the green fitting looks semi deflated and brittle IE more oval then round, flat on top and bottom.

Next under the throttle body toward cylinder 5 is a "T" connection, the main line looks OK but the two 1.5 inch short lines that make the top of the "T" look dried out and brittle. Anybody know what they go to or are for?

Visual inspection that is all that looks bad. The hose that the Triton cover rests on on the drivers side toward the back of the cover near the firewall that I had to pushed down to get the cover bolts lined up is in good shape, but when I followed it back to were it attaches to the throttle body it was pulled back about a quarter inch on the hose connector, I pushed it back on flush. I don't think it would be enough to make it leak as the connector is a good 5/8 to 3/4 inch long.

Thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Hamfisted]

If you would like to replace that Evap vacuum tube you can pick one up on Amazon for about $50.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042HHE4M/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's a common hose to replace. Call around to some of your autoparts stores and see if they have a smoke machine to rent.

 

[1955moose]

You can call around if you don't want to make a smoker or buy one. Have a shop do that part, shouldn't be more than 1/2 hour labor. You can do the repair yourself. Could be a long time before your going to need a $159.00 tool. Trust me I've got a bunch of those hanging around.

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[BRIANGEE]

My smoke machine is an old Christmas popcorn tin with a couple of air fittings epoxied on. Inside is a metal tray which holds a burning charcoal BBQ briquette. I pour a little baby oil on the burning coal, close the lid, air up the compressor as low as it goes and get enough smoke to do what I gotta do. Metal tray and the baby oil I picked up at the dollar store and was pretty much all the money I was out since I had everything else.

 

[1955moose]

Well aren't you just the Mcgyver of Arizona! Pretty cool Brian. Where you been? Haven't seen you here on the forum. We need your electrical knowledge. Glad your back, Moose.

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[Transporter]

My smoke machine is an old Christmas popcorn tin with a couple of air fittings epoxied on. Inside is a metal tray which holds a burning charcoal BBQ briquette. I pour a little baby oil on the burning coal, close the lid, air up the compressor as low as it goes and get enough smoke to do what I gotta do. Metal tray and the baby oil I picked up at the dollar store and was pretty much all the money I was out since I had everything else.

Pictures and instructions by any chance?

 

[Transporter]

Update:

I replaced the molded hose that goes from green fitting of the device on the driver’s side firewall that has a green upper fitting and a yellow lower fitting. The other end of the new hose attaches to the upper port on the back of the throttle body.

My P0172 has gone away, I now only have the 174. When I drive the Expy if I feather the throttle I can get up to 70 with no knocking and no SES or CE light. When I hit an incline, I have massage the petal with constant feathering. This seems logically backwards to me. Would not adding fuel by more throttle not solve the lean or does the computer prevent that making it even more lean?

What should I look at next? Other then the hose I damaged getting the Triton beauty cover back on after changing COP 1 and plug 1, what else could I have messed up? It throw the 301 code, I changed the COP and Plug. Drove it with no issues. Put the beauty cover back on, got the 172 and 174. Changed the damaged hose now just have a 174. One thing I am thinking about now is that the Bank 2 error is on the side that I had to press the Triton cover down to get it lined up but nothing else looks visually damaged.

 

[BRIANGEE]

Well aren't you just the Mcgyver of Arizona! Pretty cool Brian. Where you been? Haven't seen you here on the forum. We need your electrical knowledge. Glad your back, Moose.

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Well, hello, my fine feathered Moose! I peek in here every once and a while. I'm finally cutting and running from my expy - it's being sold tomorrow for a grand total of $900 as a parts only vehicle so I probably won't be around a whole lot but I must say that this is my favorite automotive forum, from the format of the forum to the helpful individuals here without all the drama and snappiness you see elsewhere so I'll be around!

 

[BRIANGEE]

Pictures and instructions by any chance?

You bet, I'll try to post pictures over the weekend but I must warn you that my 'smoke machine' is totally uninspiring LOL No instructions will be needed when you see the pics.

 

[BRIANGEE]

Transporter, do you have access to a scanner that can show fuel trims and 02 sensor data? That would work wonders in helping diagnose your situation!