Pricing Question....needing someone with an insider understanding

[TobyU]

I haven't met a car dealer yet that didn't make me feel dirty and like I was being ripped off by the end of the deal.

Exactly! But some people have a different opinion and actually think they want to help them out and get them a good deal on a car. Unless a sales guy is super new and hasn't been indoctrinated, or fired yet... They try to squeeze every last penny out of you they can. It is just how the game is played and how the world of carsales works. This is why I stay away from them.