Rear brakes - go from good to terrible in 5k miles?

[hokie98]

I have a 2018 Exp. I've spent ALOT of money on this vehicle this year...I'm probably up to about $7500 - but it's paid for and what else would I replace it with? Sigh.

My local dealer's service dept is terrible. I've talked to the service manager once after I left them a bad review, so I'm just getting some feedback because I have some "constructive criticism" for them. Previously I owned a Honda, and goodness knows, at least in my experience, their service dept is so much, well, competent. Anyway, back in May, my Exp was at the dealer for the "death rattle" aka cam phaser repair. $3700 later, when I picked it up at 77,410 miles, the "Vehicle Report Card" checked all green boxes. Last week I noticed it was making some noise while braking in the rear. I dropped it off at the dealer yesterday for an oil change and brake check. I had only driven it 5k miles since the last service (82,420)...but my rear brakes were in such terrible shape, my service advisor said they were probably unsafe, and I had to buy brakes and rotors. I told him the vehicle was there for it's last service, and asked if they don't do a vehicle inspection. He said my brakes were likely marked "yellow" on the report card, but they weren't; I have my last vehicle report & invoice.

So my question...if my brake were so terrible that I needed new rotors, 5k miles ago, shouldn't they have noticed they needed to be replaced? Or is it possible they deteriorated that quickly in 5k miles?

 

[GixxerJasen]

Most likely they didn't look at them and you can't prove it. I'd replace them with better stuff.

 

[Fastcar]

Take it to an independent for another opinion and a better price. They probably didn't check them at your last visit.

 

[hokie98]

I already replaced them yesterday...$1,000 later. I need the vehicle by later this week, and time was of the essence (why I went back to the dealer b/c I figured they would have all parts). I just wanted to get some opinions if I'm wrong before I give them another terrible review.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I have a 2018 Exp. I've spent ALOT of money on this vehicle this year...I'm probably up to about $7500 - but it's paid for and what else would I replace it with? Sigh.

My local dealer's service dept is terrible. I've talked to the service manager once after I left them a bad review, so I'm just getting some feedback because I have some "constructive criticism" for them. Previously I owned a Honda, and goodness knows, at least in my experience, their service dept is so much, well, competent. Anyway, back in May, my Exp was at the dealer for the "death rattle" aka cam phaser repair. $3700 later, when I picked it up at 77,410 miles, the "Vehicle Report Card" checked all green boxes. Last week I noticed it was making some noise while braking in the rear. I dropped it off at the dealer yesterday for an oil change and brake check. I had only driven it 5k miles since the last service (82,420)...but my rear brakes were in such terrible shape, my service advisor said they were probably unsafe, and I had to buy brakes and rotors. I told him the vehicle was there for it's last service, and asked if they don't do a vehicle inspection. He said my brakes were likely marked "yellow" on the report card, but they weren't; I have my last vehicle report & invoice.

So my question...if my brake were so terrible that I needed new rotors, 5k miles ago, shouldn't they have noticed they needed to be replaced? Or is it possible they deteriorated that quickly in 5k miles?

My guess from afar is that the employee did not check the rear brakes at the last service. I do not think the brake pads wore out in 5,000 miles (from good to bad).

I can no longer do much of the vehicle service that I did for about 50 years - due to four major surgeries.

As such - I take my Expedition to the dealer for repairs and service. After the last "Works" oil change service - when I got in my vehicle after paying, the console arm rest was covered with dirty black oil (tan interior).

On the seat was an inspection sheet stating the battery was bad and the rear alignment was off. While I was reading the printed report, I received a text from the dealer with a link stating that all items on my vehicle were in "the green" and no additional service was needed.

I drove home and parked in my garage. When I backed out later, there were two fresh puddles of dirty oil on the garage floor, which I cleaned.

I had bought the OEM HD Motorcraft battery from a local Motorcraft distributor about 10-months prior and installed it. I removed the battery and took it to them, after the dealer report. They tested it and said it was still at the original spec's. I showed them the dealer "report card" and they said it was wrong.

My personal experience is that dealers rush their work and have no concern for "doing it right the first time". They have so much work backed-up (massive recalls and warranty defects), they don't care if customers leave and go somewhere else.

I gave the dealer bad marks on the Ford email survey that I received, listing the issues. Later, I received a "cut and paste" email from the dealership stating my comments would be reviewed with their staff. No apology. No personal contact.

You're experiencing what many Ford customers are - bad dealer service.

 

[hokie98]

My guess from afar is that the employee did not check the rear brakes at the last service. I do not think the brake pads wore out in 5,000 miles (from good to bad).

I can no longer do much of the vehicle service that I did for about 50 years - due to four major surgeries.

As such - I take my Expedition to the dealer for repairs and service. After the last "Works" oil change service - when I got in my vehicle after paying, the console arm rest was covered with dirty black oil (tan interior).

On the seat was an inspection sheet stating the battery was bad and the rear alignment was off. While I was reading the printed report, I received a text from the dealer with a link stating that all items on my vehicle were in "the green" and no additional service was needed.

I drove home and parked in my garage. When I backed out later, there were two fresh puddles of dirty oil on the garage floor, which I cleaned.

I had bought the OEM HD Motorcraft battery from a local Motorcraft distributor about 10-months prior and installed it. I removed the battery and took it to them, after the dealer report. They tested it and said it was still at the original spec's. I showed them the dealer "report card" and they said it was wrong.

My personal experience is that dealers rush their work and have no concern for "doing it right the first time". They have so much work backed-up (massive recalls and warranty defects), they don't care if customers leave and go somewhere else.

I gave the dealer bad marks on the Ford email survey that I received, listing the issues. Later, I received a "cut and paste" email from the dealership stating my comments would be reviewed with their staff. No apology. No personal contact.

You're experiencing what many Ford customers are - bad dealer service.

Wow! I have generally avoided the dealership. But back in the winter, I took it in for an old change, and I told them I felt like it had terrible road noise. The advisor said "it's probably your tires" - but it wasn't. They're touring Michelin and I didn't have a problem until I did. I also told him it was shifting rough. But again, they dismissed it. Finally in Feb, I got a ton of warning lights going off on a trip. So I take it in. The advisor calls me (when I dropped it off, again, I told him, it makes awful road noise) and says it's a speed sensor on the front. So they start repairing it, and find out it's actually bad because...I'm sorry, I can't remember, maybe it was the wheel bearings that went bad, were cutting into the rotors. So the service advisor calls me back to tell me all of that needs to be replaced, and I tell him "I TOLD YOU I HAD ROAD NOISE!" - but he dismissed me. That should have been a clue.

I have the Exp with the HD Towing package because I use it to tow a horse trailer about once a month. I told the advisor yesterday I need to tow the trailer next Mon, and am going out of town for a long weekend, so I needed brakes NOW. If I had known they were in such bad shape, I would have taken care of them previously. I rather be proactive than reactive.

As mentioned, I used to own a Honda. I took that to the dealer for servicing, and it was a completely different experience. I only had contact with the service advisor (I only talk to the Ford one on the phone, always sent to the cashier to pay when it's ready - no one goes over the vehicle with me). The Honda advisor would always discuss my vehicle, what Honda thought I needed, and what they thought was necessary. Did they upsell me on some services, maybe? BUT, the vehicle also never had any problems in the 10 years I owned it. They always ran it through the car wash, and pulled it up to the bay for me to leave. Last time I left an awful review from Ford, it was after I dropped $$$$ on that front sensor issue, and I had to wander around the lot trying to find my vehicle after the cashier gave me my keys. I don't mean to be snarky, but I shouldn't have to go find my car in the lot. What if I ran into another car in the lot? They're terrible.

I would trade the thing in, but literally I don't know what else I'd buy to replace it. And it's paid for. So frustrating.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I have owned vehicles for more than 50 years. My Expedition was the first Ford I purchased (it was new).

Prior to that, I had always owned GM and Dodge. My Dad only bought GM vehicles (did not work in the auto industry).

I have had many vehicles service at many dealers - warranty, recall and customer-pay work.

Without a doubt - Ford dealers consistently provide the worst service. I have had my best service experiences with Dodge dealers, with Chevrolet dealers being close behind.

Bad dealer services will drive customers to another brand.

 

[Hellwig]

Al

Wow! I have generally avoided the dealership. But back in the winter, I took it in for an old change, and I told them I felt like it had terrible road noise. The advisor said "it's probably your tires" - but it wasn't. They're touring Michelin and I didn't have a problem until I did. I also told him it was shifting rough. But again, they dismissed it. Finally in Feb, I got a ton of warning lights going off on a trip. So I take it in. The advisor calls me (when I dropped it off, again, I told him, it makes awful road noise) and says it's a speed sensor on the front. So they start repairing it, and find out it's actually bad because...I'm sorry, I can't remember, maybe it was the wheel bearings that went bad, were cutting into the rotors. So the service advisor calls me back to tell me all of that needs to be replaced, and I tell him "I TOLD YOU I HAD ROAD NOISE!" - but he dismissed me. That should have been a clue.

I have the Exp with the HD Towing package because I use it to tow a horse trailer about once a month. I told the advisor yesterday I need to tow the trailer next Mon, and am going out of town for a long weekend, so I needed brakes NOW. If I had known they were in such bad shape, I would have taken care of them previously. I rather be proactive than reactive.

As mentioned, I used to own a Honda. I took that to the dealer for servicing, and it was a completely different experience. I only had contact with the service advisor (I only talk to the Ford one on the phone, always sent to the cashier to pay when it's ready - no one goes over the vehicle with me). The Honda advisor would always discuss my vehicle, what Honda thought I needed, and what they thought was necessary. Did they upsell me on some services, maybe? BUT, the vehicle also never had any problems in the 10 years I owned it. They always ran it through the car wash, and pulled it up to the bay for me to leave. Last time I left an awful review from Ford, it was after I dropped $$$$ on that front sensor issue, and I had to wander around the lot trying to find my vehicle after the cashier gave me my keys. I don't mean to be snarky, but I shouldn't have to go find my car in the lot. What if I ran into another car in the lot? They're terrible.

I would trade the thing in, but literally I don't know what else I'd buy to replace it. And it's paid for. So frustrating.

Generally speaking, all American consumer services are worse than their Asian (east or southeast Asia) competitors. This is a rule of thumb. Besides the car dealer services you mentioned above, hotels, airlines, restaurants, public transit, consumer package deliveries, or even maritime industry (port to port container shipping) have no exception. Across the consumer service industry, basically American operated means high prices with barely acceptable service quality, when being compared with their east Asian competitors (China, Thailand, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan). Honestly, it is the time for Americans to wake up now, just like the "sputnik moment" back to 1957.

 

[hokie98]

Al

Generally speaking, all American consumer services are worse than their Asian (east or southeast Asia) competitors. This is a rule of thumb. Besides the car dealer services you mentioned above, hotels, airlines, restaurants, public transit, consumer package deliveries, or even maritime industry (port to port container shipping) have no exception. Across the consumer service industry, basically American operated means high prices with barely acceptable service quality, when being compared with their east Asian competitors (China, Thailand, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan). Honestly, it is the time for Americans to wake up now, just like the "sputnik moment" back to 1957.

If Honda had a vehicle that could tow a horse trailer safely, I'd be all over it. We also own a Subaru, and their service dept is better, but not nearly as customer service friendly as Honda (both are owned by the same auto group).

 

[2018ExpyPlatinum]

I find it interesting to look at my sheet after service and compare it to the previous one. It's usually pretty consistent. They have been telling me I'm due for brakes on the next service for the past year and 10-15,000 miles. My dealer is pretty good I think, and the service advisor is rather cute. Last time she did try to upsell me on something and I just said no. I'm due to go back in a few months, so we'll see.

 

[BigOleFordFan]

Well, assuming everything else is as it should be, brakes do NOT just wear out in 5K miles, period ! I have over 30K on my current set (which admittedly are top of the line ceramic pads & drilled/slotted/coated rotors), and they still stop my Expy on a dime, even from 65MPH to zero....so something else is suspect in this case...

And over the past 3 years, I've dealt with 3 different stealerships, and 2 of them were so-so, but the last one was pretty good. They explained the issues & the solutions to me and told me what it was gonna cost upfront....which turned out to be about $50 less than they originally quoted, due to some of the parts going down in price recently (wow, what a shocker there !)

When I went to pick it up, they had ran it thru the wash & vacummed the interior, and gave me a huge 66 page printout showing all of the extensive diagnostics they had ran & the results of same...and pulled my vehicle up to the main service dept entrance... neither the 1st or 2nd one did any of this, but merely handed me a short invoice & my keys, and walked me up to the cashier's desk...

Guess which one I will go back to if needed

On a side note, for my 2x GM vehicles, I have a well-known, certified GM specialist shop that I have been going to for almost 20 years, and they are always faster & way, way less expensive than any stealership could ever hope to be, so there's that !

 

[hokie98]

As a follow up, I sent an email the address on the form letter saying "we hope your service was great" attached to my invoice. I explained that my vehicle was in there literally 5010 miles ago, and I went from "green" on brakes to needing rotors. I would have preferred to change the brakes 5k miles ago saving me for almost $400 for rotors. The service dept manager called me. He apologized and acknowledged clearly they dropped the ball - my brakes should have been identified as needing replacement soon. He's refunding me the cost of the rotors, which was unexpected, I didn't ask for anything. It was a decent gesture. I told him if anything, I was expecting at a dealership to be upsold on service, but quite the opposite was happening - I wasn't being made aware of essential maintenance. I still think they suck. ;-)

 

[hokie98]

Well, assuming everything else is as it should be, brakes do NOT just wear out in 5K miles, period ! I have over 30K on my current set (which admittedly are top of the line ceramic pads & drilled/slotted/coated rotors), and they still stop my Expy on a dime, even from 65MPH to zero....so something else is suspect in this case...

And over the past 3 years, I've dealt with 3 different stealerships, and 2 of them were so-so, but the last one was pretty good. They explained the issues & the solutions to me and told me what it was gonna cost upfront....which turned out to be about $50 less than they originally quoted, due to some of the parts going down in price recently (wow, what a shocker there !)

When I went to pick it up, they had ran it thru the wash & vacummed the interior, and gave me a huge 66 page printout showing all of the extensive diagnostics they had ran & the results of same...and pulled my vehicle up to the main service dept entrance... neither the 1st or 2nd one did any of this, but merely handed me a short invoice & my keys, and walked me up to the cashier's desk...

Guess which one I will go back to if needed

On a side note, for my 2x GM vehicles, I have a well-known, certified GM specialist shop that I have been going to for almost 20 years, and they are always faster & way, way less expensive than any stealership could ever hope to be, so there's that !

THIS, right here!! That last dealership is providing a relationship and a customer service experience. And to your point, you'll return. You feel valued when you leave. How much does running a car through the wash and maybe a quick vacuum add to their overhead? Probably not much, but adds a nice value to the customer experience.

 

[Ugh_J]

As a follow up, I sent an email the address on the form letter saying "we hope your service was great" attached to my invoice. I explained that my vehicle was in there literally 5010 miles ago, and I went from "green" on brakes to needing rotors. I would have preferred to change the brakes 5k miles ago saving me for almost $400 for rotors. The service dept manager called me. He apologized and acknowledged clearly they dropped the ball - my brakes should have been identified as needing replacement soon. He's refunding me the cost of the rotors, which was unexpected, I didn't ask for anything. It was a decent gesture. I told him if anything, I was expecting at a dealership to be upsold on service, but quite the opposite was happening - I wasn't being made aware of essential maintenance. I still think they suck. ;-)

I've had Ford dealers do this a few times for various things, always after I left a bad review on the service rep or the dealer. It's WEIRD they care so much AFTER you catch them doing something stupid, incompetent, or inconvenient. I can't decide if it's general incompetence (I have a fair bit of evidence that their service reps don't know their ass from their elbow) or that they just have too much going on to be able to pay enough attention to what the customer is telling them. The last time I went in to have the cam phasers and new transmission done on mine, they had a line of cars several deep trying to get into the service line, and the reps all had that harassed Walmart Returns cashier look about them. The odd thing is I had one service manager give me his card with his personal cell phone on it and said to just call him instead of the regular number to get service work done. I never had this kind of trouble getting service done on my 2007 Dodge Charger R/T I had for 8 years, but then it never NEEDED major engine or transmission service, either. SO DAMN FRUSTRATING.

 

[Fastcar]

Most should be aware that the real money is not in selling cars but at the back repairing them.

 

[JayB66]

My local dealer's service dept is terrible.

Unless you have a maintenance/warranty service plan or you run across one of those "Dealer only" service issues, Don't use a dealer service dept. Find a local shop with good word of mouth reviews. I had been using my local Pep Boys, but they got a new manager, and the customer service went to ****.

 

[Knut]

My personal experience with brakes.
2019 XLT Max with HD tow package.
I have my tires rotated at a tire store twice a year, and they never mentioned anything about my brakes. (not that it is their job to do it either). I was checking the brake rotors from the outside, reaching in and feeling the rotors to see if I could feel any groves or other indications of brake/rotor wear. Thinking if they are good on the outside they are good on the inside. Nothing.

Then all of a sudden one day I see a lot of brake dust on my rear wheel. First look from the outside and rotors are fine. Worried I have something really bad going on, I pulled the wheel and lifted the caliper.
WOW......
Both rear wheels. Outside brake pads about 1/2 life left and outside of rotor is fine.
Inside on both sides, break pads completely gone and inside of both rotors are grooved to point of no reuse.

I ordered new break pads and rotors off Amazone for about $300 and changed it myself.
Not a overly difficult job, BUT you have to make sure you put the car into service mode. Otherwise, you will not be able to push the piston back into the caliper and you'll most likely be calling a tow truck to bring it to a car repair.

 

[sjwhiteley]

I just replaced the front pads and rotors (vibration) and they were at around 1/2 depth after 53k miles. Replaced the rears at 50k. The rears were almost all gone on the inside pads. Outsides looked like there’s a few thousand miles left, but I’d flag them as ‘attention required’.

A visual inspect is required on the pads both inside and outside, which requires the wheel to be off to get a clear view.

 

[3rd Expyowner123]

Have to second Honkie98’s comments regarding Honda. Have a 2019 Accord and my experience with maintenance has been outstanding. Can make appointment for oil change, they rotate tires complementary and check brake pads. They even check wheel alignment on a complimentary basis. My car is always on washed and completed in typically one hour. Maintenance cost significantly lower than my 2018 Expedition. Sure wish Honda made a big tow machine like the Expy.