Rear Sway bar?

[Chio4]

2021 will be fine with it. there were no changes

Hello everyone. Newbie here. Just read through the entire post. I'm picking up a '21 platinum shorty in a week, didn't see anything about anyone installing the Hellwigs on a '21. I contacted Vern who couldn't confirm fitment on the the newest model. Where I live in Alberta, Canada the bars would be special order and I'm trying to avoid restocking fees. Vern figured in a month or 2 he would have an answer. It's not a redesign but he said maybe a bracket here or a tab there could be the difference.

 

[bwhinnen]

My rear arrived today, just waiting on the front. Box was fully intact, it’s the front I think may break through.



Does anyone have the torque specs for the end links?

I was going for about 40 for the u-plate nuts with some blue loctite.

The good thing being from Oz is all my tools are metric and imperial, so no troubles finding the right size sockets.

 

[bwhinnen]

Ended up doing the end links tightly not over tight, will check them in a week.

Just so you know if you have a 15mm wrench (I used a ring wrench) and a 6mm socket for the end. It makes it real easy. The other you will need is a 15mm deep socket.

I did the end tight, and snugged the main u-bushing, then went for a drive around the block, up and down drives, one set of wheels on the road and the other on the sidewalk. I’m sure the neighbors thought I was mad. Then came back and torqued everything down.

Original versus new.

 

[Deadman]

Enjoy the death to the Bobble-head issues!

 

[hellohithere]

I'm a bit confused regarding the swaybars and am not a suspension expert by any means. My platinum Expedition in Normal driving mode has a lot of unnecessary up and down bounce motions on uneven roads that are almost trampoline like. It is a huge difference from our 2019 Black Label Navigator L. When I put the Expedition into Sport mode, it eliminates a large percentage of the excess vertical motion. From my understanding, the spring rates in the Expedition are quiet high and the Normal mode dampening is not strong enough, therefore allowing the excessive up and down motion, which is proven by Sport mode's increased dampening correcting the issue.

Can someone help me understand how the sway bars are eliminating the up and down trampoline movement as reported by some users? From what I understand, the sway bars make the ride stiffer, which is great for cornering, but may actually make the ride bouncier with the Expedition still in Normal mode's standard dampening? On a side note, would weaker spring rates be more appropriate to eliminate the excess vertical motions if not towing? Or is there any way to run only the suspension in the Sport mode setting without the racey shifting points? How different is the Navigator's suspension from Ford's CCD?

 

[Deadman]

I'm a bit confused regarding the swaybars and am not a suspension expert by any means. My platinum Expedition in Normal driving mode has a lot of unnecessary up and down bounce motions on uneven roads that are almost trampoline like. It is a huge difference from our 2019 Black Label Navigator L. When I put the Expedition into Sport mode, it eliminates a large percentage of the excess vertical motion. From my understanding, the spring rates in the Expedition are quiet high and the Normal mode dampening is not strong enough, therefore allowing the excessive up and down motion, which is proven by Sport mode's increased dampening correcting the issue.

Can someone help me understand how the sway bars are eliminating the up and down trampoline movement as reported by some users? From what I understand, the sway bars make the ride stiffer, which is great for cornering, but may actually make the ride bouncier with the Expedition still in Normal mode's standard dampening? On a side note, would weaker spring rates be more appropriate to eliminate the excess vertical motions if not towing? Or is there any way to run only the suspension in the Sport mode setting without the racey shifting points? How different is the Navigator's suspension from Ford's CCD?

The reason the expedition bounces and flops around like a fish out of water on rough roads is because the rebound dampening in the struts is FAR too weak. That means when the suspension compresses in a bump that it springs back "UP" too fast and then make it almost "buck" you as it slams you up too fast. That is the rebound dampening of the strut being too unrestricted and allowing the strut to basically slam up/open too fast. That coupled with the soft springs on the expedition then allows it to compress down because it robounded so violently. That creates a vicious cycle of Up and Down movement on EVERY single offset in the road surface.

The sway bar stiffens the suspension and limits the leaning of the vehicle and essentially stops all the uncontrolled movements that piss you off. Is it the right way to fix it, maybe/maybe not, but I'm not capable of revalving the rebound valving in these struts.

The reason sport mode holds the bobble-heads down is because it stiffens up the compression and probably rebound valving, so it controls the over-extensions much better.

The Lincoln just flat out rides like shit. My wifes 2018 Navigator L 4x4 Black Label is sooooo stiff it rides like complete trash. We won't even take it on long drives because its just rough as heck compared to my Expedition. My wife even comments how smooth mine rides compared to her Navigator. I ordered sway bars for her Navigator, but I fear its going to ride even stiffer......

Hope this helps....

 

[hellohithere]

The reason the expedition bounces and flops around like a fish out of water on rough roads is because the rebound dampening in the struts is FAR too weak. That means when the suspension compresses in a bump that it springs back "UP" too fast and then make it almost "buck" you as it slams you up too fast. That is the rebound dampening of the strut being too unrestricted and allowing the strut to basically slam up/open too fast. That coupled with the soft springs on the expedition then allows it to compress down because it robounded so violently. That creates a vicious cycle of Up and Down movement on EVERY single offset in the road surface.

The sway bar stiffens the suspension and limits the leaning of the vehicle and essentially stops all the uncontrolled movements that piss you off. Is it the right way to fix it, maybe/maybe not, but I'm not capable of revalving the rebound valving in these struts.

The reason sport mode holds the bobble-heads down is because it stiffens up the compression and probably rebound valving, so it controls the over-extensions much better.

The Lincoln just flat out rides like shit. My wifes 2018 Navigator L 4x4 Black Label is sooooo stiff it rides like complete trash. We won't even take it on long drives because its just rough as heck compared to my Expedition. My wife even comments how smooth mine rides compared to her Navigator. I ordered sway bars for her Navigator, but I fear its going to ride even stiffer......

Hope this helps....

I agree with all of this except one thing - instead of the springs being soft, could they actually be too stiff? This would explain the "buck" on the upward extension and the several vertical cycles after each bump? Have the sway bars helped you specifically with the upward "buck" motions when going over large bumps in the road? Thanks!

 

[dlcorbett]

The reason the expedition bounces and flops around like a fish out of water on rough roads is because the rebound dampening in the struts is FAR too weak. That means when the suspension compresses in a bump that it springs back "UP" too fast and then make it almost "buck" you as it slams you up too fast. That is the rebound dampening of the strut being too unrestricted and allowing the strut to basically slam up/open too fast. That coupled with the soft springs on the expedition then allows it to compress down because it robounded so violently. That creates a vicious cycle of Up and Down movement on EVERY single offset in the road surface.

The sway bar stiffens the suspension and limits the leaning of the vehicle and essentially stops all the uncontrolled movements that piss you off. Is it the right way to fix it, maybe/maybe not, but I'm not capable of revalving the rebound valving in these struts.

The reason sport mode holds the bobble-heads down is because it stiffens up the compression and probably rebound valving, so it controls the over-extensions much better.

The Lincoln just flat out rides like shit. My wifes 2018 Navigator L 4x4 Black Label is sooooo stiff it rides like complete trash. We won't even take it on long drives because its just rough as heck compared to my Expedition. My wife even comments how smooth mine rides compared to her Navigator. I ordered sway bars for her Navigator, but I fear its going to ride even stiffer......

Hope this helps....

Have yall tried swapping out the tires on your nav? A lot of ppl on the lincoln forum says this helps with most ride issues on their 4th gen nav? Seeing as yall got it used, and how fast the tires on suvs go nowadays, I feel like that could be an issue. Again, I haven't driven the new nav longer than 10 miles at a time, but the times I did, it was smoother than butterscotch and they weren't highway drives either.

 

[Deadman]

Have yall tried swapping out the tires on your nav? A lot of ppl on the lincoln forum says this helps with most ride issues on their 4th gen nav? Seeing as yall got it used, and how fast the tires on suvs go nowadays, I feel like that could be an issue. Again, I haven't driven the new nav longer than 10 miles at a time, but the times I did, it was smoother than butterscotch and they weren't highway drives either.

Both my 18 Expedition and wifes 18 Navigator are on the EXACT same factory tires. They are identical sizes, identical manuacturer, identical tire model, and ironically they both have 20,000 miles on them.

The navigator is just stiffer and rides like garbage. Luckily the seats are so great in the Navigator, that helps with its rough ride.

 

[Deadman]

I agree with all of this except one thing - instead of the springs being soft, could they actually be too stiff? This would explain the "buck" on the upward extension and the several vertical cycles after each bump? Have the sway bars helped you specifically with the upward "buck" motions when going over large bumps in the road? Thanks!

The springs are butter soft, thats why the vehicle bounces and bobs around on the road. If they were stiff, they wouldn't allow it to compress. When guys haul trailers, they squat a lot from the soft springs.

The sway bars made this Expedition into an absolute dream to drive. I honestly had buyers remorse the first week I owned it. It literally made me sick on how ridiculous it slobbered all over the backroads, I was beyond embarrassed.

After the rear sway bar, the nasty body sway stopped and lots of the bouncing stopped similar to putting it in sport mode prior. After the front bar, the vehicle turned into a solid, no bobble head, excellent handling piece. It now reminds me of a performance sedan handling wise. For a huge tall vehicle it handles really really well and it still rides extremely smooth.
It will run thru round-abouts 20 mph faster than you could before the sway bars. My wife just made me order sway bars for her navigator because we just took my Expedition on a 3,000 mile trip and she couldn't believe how much better it did than her sloppy rough Navigator. Best money I've spent in a while.