Spark Knock

[JUST4FUN]

egr ports might be plugged with carbon ,egr is used to cool the cumbustion chamber and to help with detionation. take off the egr check the ports in the intake

 

[JUST4FUN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH_kjRwD-Xw
check this out
00 Ford Expedition 5.4L V-8 EGR flow and DPFE test

 

[JUST4FUN]

can you do a video of the spark knock

 

[00 Expy Police]

well im lost i have replaced everything i can think of and still have spark knock in the morning when its cold,and when i come slow down from high speed ( sometimes ) but mainly in the morning,i changed the plugs to double platinum,new coils wires and then back to used ones, E G R valve,E G R vacume presure switch,DPFE switch, Idle control valve ,seafoam in vac line (1.5 cans) and 1 in oil and gas tank,and nothing works,when not sparking it runs so smooth.
I ran it on the scanner and when it started to spark knock we watched the timing retard to 3-5 deg and it was still spark knocking and cant figure out why it spark knocking when the timing retard's down to 3-5 deg,,o2 sensors read read good and no check eng light ,could the computer be going bad cause thats bout the only thing i can think of?????

 

[JUST4FUN]

lets look at somthing diffrent,what weight oil is in the truck ?
the cam phazers need to have 5w20 to work properly.
is the oil pressure correct?
are you confusing piston slap with ping?

 

[JUST4FUN]

from what you told me on the phone it has to be electrical.
spark knocking then you turn it off, restart runs fine for the rest of the trip

 

[00 Expy Police]

from what you told me on the phone it has to be electrical.
spark knocking then you turn it off, restart runs fine for the rest of the trip

yes thats what i dont understand,,u think that 10w-30 gonna make it do that,,if it does ill be happy to put 5w-20,only reason i did cause of morning rattle for that 1.5 sec ,thought it would help that out

 

[toms89]

lets look at somthing diffrent,what weight oil is in the truck ?
the cam phazers need to have 5w20 to work properly.
is the oil pressure correct?
are you confusing piston slap with ping?

I thought Cam phazers are specific to 3v and 4v motors with the variable valve timing. The 2v motors do not have cam phazers that I am aware of. I assume the op has a 2000 expy motor ??

"yes thats what i dont understand,,u think that 10w-30 gonna make it do that,,if it does ill be happy to put 5w-20,only reason i did cause of morning rattle for that 1.5 sec ,thought it would help that out"

Rattle on start up is likely caused by lack of oil pressure or oil bleeding out of the passages. This is not normal. What oil filter are you using?? The oil filter has a check valve to prevent this bleed down.

 

[00 Expy Police]

I thought Cam phazers are specific to 3v and 4v motors with the variable valve timing. The 2v motors do not have cam phazers that I am aware of. I assume the op has a 2000 expy motor ??

00 expy yes but 03 2v motor,im assuming they finished out the 2v early in the year cause the tag on the new motor said biult in 03

 

[JUST4FUN]

ok no cam phazers in 2v motor. i learned sumthing today
still need to figure this out

 

[JUST4FUN]

I thought Cam phazers are specific to 3v and 4v motors with the variable valve timing. The 2v motors do not have cam phazers that I am aware of. I assume the op has a 2000 expy motor ??

"yes thats what i dont understand,,u think that 10w-30 gonna make it do that,,if it does ill be happy to put 5w-20,only reason i did cause of morning rattle for that 1.5 sec ,thought it would help that out"

Rattle on start up is likely caused by lack of oil pressure or oil bleeding out of the passages. This is not normal. What oil filter are you using?? The oil filter has a check valve to prevent this bleed down.

ford only recomends 5w20 in the modular motor. fram spends all there money on ads and nothing on there filters IMHO they suck

 

[00 Expy Police]

I thought Cam phazers are specific to 3v and 4v motors with the variable valve timing. The 2v motors do not have cam phazers that I am aware of. I assume the op has a 2000 expy motor ??

"yes thats what i dont understand,,u think that 10w-30 gonna make it do that,,if it does ill be happy to put 5w-20,only reason i did cause of morning rattle for that 1.5 sec ,thought it would help that out"

Rattle on start up is likely caused by lack of oil pressure or oil bleeding out of the passages. This is not normal. What oil filter are you using?? The oil filter has a check valve to prevent this bleed down.

fram filter,oil presure looks good but whos to say that gauge is right,but that bleed off make sense,ill change filter with new oil

 

[00 Expy Police]

can we rule out the computer?

 

[00 Expy Police]

ok i was just told by my cousin that was reading the scanner ,he said the rear o2 sensors were rich at all times and ran at .67-.74 volts,,it did not change like the front ones did?????? ok now we on to something else

 

[JUST4FUN]

can we rule out the computer?

not yet, go after the knock sensor and the wire

 

[toms89]

"I ran it on the scanner and when it started to spark knock we watched the timing retard to 3-5 deg and it was still spark knocking and cant figure out why it spark knocking when the timing retard's down to 3-5 deg,"

It sounds to me as if the knock sensor is working. My concern would be why is it knocking in the first place.

Possible causes as I see it.

1-too much timing advance.
2-air/ fuel ratio to lean.
3-hot spot in combustion chamber.
4-egr not functioning properly.
5-compression ratio to high.
6-fuel octane too low (if contaminated with oil can have same effect)
7-too much boost for fuel octane (can rule this out )

You mentioned the rear O2 sensors read rich. Now I really don't know how the computer reads or adjust for the rear O2 sensors but generally I would assume if the computer believes the air/fuel ratio is rich it will continue to lean it out till it gets the reading it is looking for. I believe if O2's get contaminated by lead, coolant or ?? they will react slower and read rich. (based on experience with my mustang)

It would be nice if you could test your air/fuel ratio to rule this out

 

[00 Expy Police]

what should the spark plug gap be,,i didnt gap them just put them in straight from the box,,starting to think gap is to big,,,still chasing this spark knock

 

[toms89]

.052-.056

Should be on the radiator cover..

Never install out of the box.. Always properly gap your plugs.

Doubt it would cause spark knock though..... If gapped to large you can get misfire under load. Too small just not as efficient.

 

[00 Expy Police]

.052-.056

Should be on the radiator cover..

Never install out of the box.. Always properly gap your plugs.

Doubt it would cause spark knock though..... If gapped to large you can get misfire under load. Too small just not as efficient.

i dont have that cover ur talking bout nor the belt route sticker,,when i put the new plugs in i thought the gap was to big but ive always done that with other motors but this one just acts way to funny,,i do notice a lil mis in morning while warming up and then when i take off is when it turns into spark knock,,,at cruising speeds its fine just down low is when i notice it ,yesterday i drove it home all the spark knocking and what felt like a miss when conv locked up at low speed and no cel,,hmm

 

[00 Expy Police]

Well remember in original post i said i bought summit brand coils,,well last night i checked gap on plugs and they were .045,changed out the coils to original motorcraft and drove last night for 50 miles and it was good,,,this morning was cold and did my normal thing and it was fine for another 50 mile trip to work,,so i dont understand why those summit coils did that but im a happy camper,,now i can move on to shocks and brakes