Torque Converter/Transmission ???

[ptmares]

2007 Expedition with 109k. While driving at a constant speed between 35-55 mph, I get a shuddering like sensation through the cab of the vehicle. More pronounced while climbing a hill.

The feeling is that of a wash board dirt road or rumble strips on the sides of the road. I get another sensation/noise from being stopped on a slight hill and letting the truck roll backwards while in drive. After the hill roll back, still in drive, press the gas (less than 1000rpm's) slightly while going uphill and its as if something releases. Not a loud sound at all. Still felt through the cab.

All fluids changed, tranny, t-case, rear & front diffs. Plugs changed at 101K, and cop's changed 108k.

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[GaryH2]

Do you have the chrome clad 20s?

I had a shudder around 45-50 mph and it turned out to be an out of balance wheel. It took a while for them to balance them *just so* to get rid of the wobble. That might be something to look into.

One thing I have noticed (which may or may not be related to your other problem) is that the 6 speed gets confused at low speeds. I know when I roll up to certain stop signs, I need to come to a complete stop, wait a second and then go. (Either that or do a "rolling stop"). Otherwise the tranny will be in second (or third) and slam into first with a jolt unless I start off like a snail. It sounds like a hesitation, but its the indecision of the tranny. The other 99.9999999999% of the time the tranny and engine are marvelous.
Could your seond issue be something along those lines?

 

[ptmares]

I have factory 18" wheels.

I just had the tires balanced to see if it is/was a shudder due to the tires. It seems as though they made it worse. I have a terrible shudder now at 65-75 mph. I am wondering if a wheel has became out of balance. The tires (Michelin LTX M/S2's) have 12k on them. Is it possible the tire construction broke down?

As far as my second issue, I am completely stopped on the hill which I would think downshifts the tranny to 1st. Basically, the roll back then clunk occurs from the foot transition off of the brake on to the gas pedal.

Possible some kind of other front end problem. Recently (at 107k) had Bilstein 4600 series shocks put on all four corners. I am at a lose.

Thanks forum.

 

[tojohnso]

What happens when you turn? Does it make a clunk then? Could be subtle.

 

[ptmares]

What happens when you turn? Does it make a clunk then? Could be subtle.

At times I do get a slight clunk out of the left front wheel area. It doesn't happen all the time. Whats your thoughts?

 

[tojohnso]

Left front wheel area? Last time I had clunking noises on one side like that it was a hub that went bad. But Expy's don't have locking hubs. I was thinking the differential. I had my '99 rear re-built under the extended warranty it was doing some of what you described.

 

[ptmares]

I see a dealership trip in my future. It was recently in for service. While there, I had them look into the left front wheel area clunk and they couldn't find anything wrong at the time.

The service writers first thought was the rear end as you described. Maybe it has gotten worse. Might have to try a different dealership.

Is the vibration I feel the rear end going bad? Would it be felt at all speeds?

 

[tojohnso]

Got me. My symptom was a knock when I turned and/or started from a stop, I could feel it kerchunk. Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in. Good luck!

When you do find out the issue, please update us. I'm really curious.

 

[ptmares]

I hope I'm onto something. I just drained and refilled the rear differential with mobil 1 synthetic 75w-140 and added the 4oz of motorcraft friction modifier.

I took it for a short drive (cross my fingers) and don't think I felt any vibration. Probably needs a longer test drive.

6k miles ago I drained and refilled the rear differential with Royal Purple 75w-140 and also added 4oz of friction modifier. Not sure if the R.P. would have caused the vibration in the rear end or not.

It was inexpensive for me to D and R the rear differential with the Mobil 1 gear oil. Worth a shot if it works.

 

[ptmares]

Off to the dealership. Will let you know what they come up with.

 

[ptmares]

Figures! The dealer is telling me that the vibration and clunking I am feeling is considered normal. Reason being that my Expedition is an EL version and it has over 100k on the clock.

They claim even if $5k was spent to fix, the issues could be worse.

My question is, how can this be considered normal?

 

[tojohnso]

Advice - go somewhere else until you get a better answer. You shouldn't feel any vibrations. It should be smooth as silk.

 

[ptmares]

That's what I was thinking. One of the last things that I had done before the vibration issue was a transmission service.

The dealer said all they can perform on my expedition was a drain and refill. Not sure why a drain and refill would potentially cause a vibration.

 

[tojohnso]

Sounds like they are the wrong dealer. All transmissions can be pulled apart and rebuilt. I haven't heard of Ford stating you can't work on their transmissions.

We had an old Honda, a '98, that needed it's transmission rebuilt. The Honda dealer said they couldn't rebuild it. Honda only approved of replacing with new transmissions built in Japan. They wanted over $5K for that. I went to the best AAMCO in the area and spent $1500.

 

[ptmares]

Sounds like they are the wrong dealer. All transmissions can be pulled apart and rebuilt. I haven't heard of Ford stating you can't work on their transmissions.

We had an old Honda, a '98, that needed it's transmission rebuilt. The Honda dealer said they couldn't rebuild it. Honda only approved of replacing with new transmissions built in Japan. They wanted over $5K for that. I went to the best AAMCO in the area and spent $1500.

May have to go to a recommended transmission shop near me. What are the chances a non ford shop would accept my third party warranty?

Kinda surprised the dealer doesn't want to look at it better. Being that I have a warranty. Off subject, but the same dealer said nothing wrong replaced timing chain guides and tensioners all under my warranty. There loss at this point.

 

[tojohnso]

May have to go to a recommended transmission shop near me. What are the chances a non ford shop would accept my third party warranty?

If I'm not mistaken, third party warranties can be used just about anywhere. Call the company you have it with and ask them. Or, find a place with a great reputation and ask if they take your warranty.

 

[msteffe]

To the OP, did you resolve your issue and if so what was the problem? I have the exact same symptoms and I'm scratching my head as to what to do. I'd hate to replace the torque converter if it's something easier/cheaper to fix. Thanks in advance.

 

[ptmares]

I guess so...I'm not really sure if the problem has been fixed. At the time I had the weird driveline feelings, I had just bought new tires. The issue was some what resolved the a tire re-balance and rotate.

I don't think the problem is the torque converter. For the most part the issue has not returned. Right now, I am fighting a bad tire issue (same issue/vibration problems) with michelin tire's. Sorry to get back to you so late. Just started a new job. Moving @#$%.

Good luck, ptmares

 

[msteffe]

I guess so...I'm not really sure if the problem has been fixed. At the time I had the weird driveline feelings, I had just bought new tires. The issue was some what resolved the a tire re-balance and rotate.

I don't think the problem is the torque converter. For the most part the issue has not returned. Right now, I am fighting a bad tire issue (same issue/vibration problems) with michelin tire's. Sorry to get back to you so late. Just started a new job. Moving @#$%.

Good luck, ptmares

Thanks for the info. I was slated for torque converter replacement and the day before I decided to siphon the tranny fluid out of the pan and examine/replace. the fluid was very dark/brown - but didn't smell burnt or anything too terrible. I refilled with 4.5 qts of mercon SP and the shudder was completely gone. I have since done the drain again, this time i removed the pan as I wanted to have a look inside there and figured I may as well replace the filter. didn't find any metal or anything alarming in the pan - it actually looked pretty good. so I am in the process of refilling and I am hopefully going to mark mine case closed (at least for now). Moral of the story - I suspect these transmissions are extremely finiky about their fluid and once it breaks down bad things start to happen. I have 107K on the odometer - I bought it about 8K miles ago. I suspect the fluid is original. I will be draining/fill X2 every 30k miles from here on out. I've done this on all my vehicles and have had great auto transmission luck up to and past 200k miles. I would encourage everyone to not wait 100K before changing out your tranmission fluid. The vehicle weighs 6K pounds empty, that alone is reason enough to follow the severe schedule IMO. Good luck all.

 

[GaryH2]

I guess so...I'm not really sure if the problem has been fixed. At the time I had the weird driveline feelings, I had just bought new tires. The issue was some what resolved the a tire re-balance and rotate.

I don't think the problem is the torque converter. For the most part the issue has not returned. Right now, I am fighting a bad tire issue (same issue/vibration problems) with michelin tire's. Sorry to get back to you so late. Just started a new job. Moving @#$%.

Good luck, ptmares

I am now having a similar problem. It almost feels as if the tires are flatspotted, but they are new so that's probably not the case.

Rebalance and rotating helped some. I have other tires and I may switch them out and see if it makes a difference.