Towing, tow package?

[acritzer]

First post...

We have a 2011 EL, XLT.
Can anyone tell me what the factory tow package includes? I'm pretty sure ours does not have this, but we've been towing a dry weight 6,200 TT for several years with no trouble. I did have a third party install a transmission cooler and we use a weight distributing hitch.

I have done lots of research with so-so results. I've read that I'm crazy. and I've also read that it's fine.

Anyone here have additional advice? We are looking to trade in our current TT for one that is just a bit lighter, but it's renewed my paranoia on being "extra safe".

Thanks so much.

 

[Bedrck47]

Normally the tow package includes a auxiliary trans cooler and a weight dist hitch along with a 7 pin connector
may or may not include a brake controller.

Do not determine your towing capacity on dry weight Always use the gross weight of the trailer

Check your owners manual for the max trailer weight that the Expy is rated to tow.

Now just my opinion and for safety I always keep my trailer gross weight at least 1000 lbs less that the rated tow capacity of the expy.

You may also want to visit the Cat Scales and get your weights and see how it compares to the Expy's load ratings.

Also consider some good sway control along with a good equalizing hitch Pay attention to tongue weight

 

[Bedrck47]

BTW welcome to the forum

I would suggest that you consider joining one of the RV sites such as Jayco Owners Forum. Again my opinion and also my experience is that you will get better advice about towing TT's from those that have that experience

Not saying you won't get good advice here but the RV sites are more involved in towing and also about weights etc.

 

[acritzer]

Normally the tow package includes a auxiliary trans cooler and a weight dist hitch along with a 7 pin connector
may or may not include a brake controller.

Do not determine your towing capacity on dry weight Always use the gross weight of the trailer

Check your owners manual for the max trailer weight that the Expy is rated to tow.

Now just my opinion and for safety I always keep my trailer gross weight at least 1000 lbs less that the rated tow capacity of the expy.

You may also want to visit the Cat Scales and get your weights and see how it compares to the Expy's load ratings.

Also consider some good sway control along with a good equalizing hitch Pay attention to tongue weight

Thanks so much. So, based on your description I have theoretically created a tow package? We added a transmission cooler, have the 7 pin wiring and are using a WDH rated to 10,000 lbs with a class IV hitch.

Is that really all that's included with the factory tow package? That ups the tow capacity from 6,000 to 8,700?

And thanks for the additional heads up on towing I know that dry weight isn't the one to use, that was just for reference.

 

[Bedrck47]

Yes Having the proper tow package makes a big difference in what can be towed. Another item that can change max towing capacity is the axel ratio

Read the attached link

http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f37/how-to-weigh-your-tv-tt-3871.html#post24549

 

[acritzer]

Yes Having the proper tow package makes a big difference in what can be towed. Another item that can change max towing capacity is the axel ratio

Read the attached link

http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f37/how-to-weigh-your-tv-tt-3871.html#post24549

Ok. But is what I've done basically the same as the factory tow package?

 

[Bedrck47]

I would say yes

 

[acritzer]

Another quick question. Are there heavy duty after market radiators available? If I wanted to beef up the cooling and approximate the tow package equipment, would this be an option?

A local shop I use said there really isn't anything other than the part from Ford...he said this would run close to $700. Looking for alternatives.

 

[Flexpedition]

Ford's HD tow package on your 2011 included a higher capacity radiator. One extra row I believe. Fords calls them "super cooling". And its dealer LIST price is $226.95. Your local guy is either nuts, a con man, or wants to install two or three of them for you for $700. 1-1/4" core compared to standard 15/16".

Denso, TYC, Spectra, Valeo are aftermarket alternatives, but I am not sure who makes what. I'd go with Motorcraft, at a different shop.

 

[acritzer]

Ford's HD tow package on your 2011 had a higher capacity radiator. One extra row I believe. Fords calls them "super cooling". And its dealer LIST price is $226.95. Your local guy is either nuts, a con man, or wants to install two or three of them for you for $700. 1-1/4" core compared to standard 15/16".

Denso, TYC, Spectra, Valeo are aftermarket alternatives, but I am not sure who makes what. I'd go with Motorcraft, at a different shop.

You seem to know better details than I do. So the "super cooling" radiator is really only a little bit different than stock? If that's the case, is it really necessary?

Also...your price is pretty close, but the dealer and my local shop have quoted around 5 hrs. of labor for the job. Shop says $700ish, dealer wants $868 (installed). If you do think it's necessary to install something more than stock, for heavy towing, could you help me find something that would work?
I have no idea what the companies that you mentioned are, wouldn't know what to search for, and certainly wouldn't know if it would really help with the towing.

Thanks so much!

 

[Flexpedition]

I'd personally leave the stock radiator in there, especially considering your planning a newer trailer that is as light as or lighter than your current 6200, which you said yourself has been trouble-free towing.

I've not removed an Expedition radiator, but 5 hours seems like worst case scenario. There really is a lot of room in the engine bay to work in, its not like a small subcompact front-wheel-drive car. Even with minimal amounts of DIY wrenching experience, I think you can tackle this job yourself, if you really feel its needed, which I don't.

If you were pulling mountains all summer with a 7K+ trailer, I'd probably recommend the "upgrade". Nothing wrong with your better safe than sorry paranoia, other than it can be expensive overkill.

Rock auto for example lists a variety of companies who stock these:
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2011,expedition,5.4l+v8,3015237,cooling+system,radiator,2172

Your local NAPA might be a good place to try as well.

 

[acritzer]

I'd personally leave the stock radiator in there, especially considering your planning a newer trailer that is as light as or lighter than your current 6200, which you said yourself has been trouble-free towing.

I've not removed an Expedition radiator, but 5 hours seems like worst case scenario. There really is a lot of room in the engine bay to work in, its not like a small subcompact front-wheel-drive car. Even with minimal amounts of DIY wrenching experience, I think you can tackle this job yourself, if you really feel its needed, which I don't.

If you were pulling mountains all summer with a 7K+ trailer, I'd probably recommend the "upgrade". Nothing wrong with your better safe than sorry paranoia, other than it can be expensive overkill.

Rock auto for example lists a variety of companies who stock these:
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2011,expedition,5.4l+v8,3015237,cooling+system,radiator,2172

Your local NAPA might be a good place to try as well.

Well....we are towing into the West this summer! It'll be our longest trip thus far. 2-3 weeks,
Badlands, Yellowstone, etc.
Not to mention, the trailer we're looking at is really only a couple hundred pounds lighter.

Does that change your mind at all?

The link you provided, are all of those "heavy duty"?

 

[Flexpedition]

Doesn't change my mind. Your transmission cooler upgrade is the only thing I would have done myself.

The link provided has various mfgs offerings in both standard and heavy duty. The only brand I'd consider is Motorcraft, which Rock Auto shows as RAD47. Its $153 + shipping, which for my ZIP code is only $8.99.

It is a bit ironic that the HD is less money than the standard. Must be a supply/demand thing.
Best that I can tell is the capacity is the same between heavy and standard duty. The only differences in coolant quantity that I could find was presence or absence of rear HVAC. 23.2 qts verses 20.6. So all you are gaining is a row. Not worth it to me.

 

[acritzer]

Doesn't change my mind. Your transmission cooler upgrade is the only thing I would have done myself.

The link provided has various mfgs offerings in both standard and heavy duty. The only brand I'd consider is Motorcraft, which Rock Auto shows as RAD47. Its $153 + shipping, which for my ZIP code is only $8.99.

It is a bit ironic that the HD is less money than the standard. Must be a supply/demand thing.
Best that I can tell is the capacity is the same between heavy and standard duty. The only differences in coolant quantity that I could find was presence or absence of rear HVAC. 23.2 qts verses 20.6. So all you are gaining is a row. Not worth it to me.

I'm being asked in a different forum if the difference would be an extra horizontal row or a vertical row?

From his description I'd guess horizontal? If vertical he claims it could double the cooling effect.

 

[acritzer]

Another followup question. Local shop said they could put one in for me. Do you know, would a 1 3/8'' core be "heavy duty" when compared to a 1"?

 

[Flexpedition]

Yes. The larger core size is due to an additional row, which are horizontal. It won't double the cooling effect but would certainly add to it, thus Ford's term "Super Cooling". There is a science behind it, something along the lines of the square inches of radiator surface area should be equal to the engines cubic inch displacement.

So in the 5.4L 330CI, the face of the rad should be equal to or greater than 330 square inches, or 100%. There is then a formula considering 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th rows. If I recall, 2nd row is 70% of cooling effect, 3rd is less, and so on.

 

[acritzer]

Yes. The larger core size is due to an additional row, which are horizontal. It won't double the cooling effect but would certainly add to it, thus Ford's term "Super Cooling". There is a science behind it, something along the lines of the square inches of radiator surface area should be equal to the engines cubic inch displacement.

So in the 5.4L 330CI, the face of the rad should be equal to or greater than 330 square inches, or 100%. There is then a formula considering 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th rows. If I recall, 2nd row is 70% of cooling effect, 3rd is less, and so on.

Ok, thanks. The last shop I called quoted a much lower total for labor. Based on that price and all the forum help I think I'll go ahead with it....just to be safe.

 

[Chewtoy]

5 hrs to install may be flat rate, but it's actually an easy install if you are mechanically inclined. Biggest issue is the bottom radiator hose with Ford's odd twist connector. Also be careful not to cross thread the transmission cooler lines. I did 3 in my old Expy before we discovered the plastic intake manifold was cracked na was pressurizing the cooling system

 

[acritzer]

I have an update, wondering if anyone can confirm?

After lots of communication with various shops and a couple guys that called on some Ford techs. I've been told that the 2011 Expedition EL came standard with the larger radiator option. The tow package for that year and vehicle did not include a different radiator.

One guy told me to measure the fins in a 1'' section. If there were 13 it's the smaller radiator, if it's 19 it's the larger one. Using this description I checked and indeed found 19.

Anyone know if any of this is legit?

 

[inmanlanier]

How much are you planning on towing and how often? Generally factory ratings have some conservatism in them. If you are towing at or near the rating infrequently, I would not worry about extra cooling unless you've actually tried it out and seen where you cannot maintain the normal temperature. I have your same vehicle (1 year newer) - I have not done any mods and do not have the tow package. I did retrofit the 7 pin and have a Class III hitch. I tow a boat that ranges in weight from 5500# to perhaps 7500# when fully loaded (rarely towed in that configuration). Almost all trips are local at slow speeds so that moderates the load per se. I only go distance once or twice a year where I travel 225 miles to the Fl. Keys. In that configuration where both the boat and trailer are near the tow package capacity (lower actually), I simply go at slower speeds, monitor everything closely and leave plenty of room to brake (I have trailer brakes).

I'm sure there are folks out on the forum that will say I'm a mad man, however the ratings are generally listed for continuous load at those max conditions, max outside temperature, etc. etc. That's what we engineers do when we design things.

I've been doing this for 4 years now with no issues (not necessarily enough data for the tranny temps), however my car never heats up above the normal temp. Trust me - the temps to the Keys in July are up there!