Well, it’s happening again.

[1955moose]

Back in the late 90's I was a service dispatcher at a Dodge dealer about 25 miles south of San Francisco. I had 2 guys that did nothing but transmission rebuilds on the Caravans. I had so many of them with fried tranny's, can't remember a day, that they and 1 other tech wasn't gutting, and rebuilding an automatic. People buy them out of American loyalty, but the Japanese vans got them beat all to heck. The Sienna, and others aren't without problems, but they stand a better chance of pushing over 200k.

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[Machete]

Well you can see the Koreans & Japanese are selling damn good cars and trucks for a realistic price compared to the big 3, and I'm not gonna lie even when everyone says SUVs are selling more the Japanese got this subject on lock with customer loyalty to the constantly seeking Rav-4, CRV, Pilot, Highlander and dont forget the two best selling minivans which seems Chrysler cant come close to the odyssey & sienna and to top it off they actually look good unlike what the big 3 are pushing out... theirs look like crap in comparison and what SUV's from them has stuck around to get its own loyalty crowd (beside the Wrangler)... none! they're always changing names hoping for the next big thing but the price vs quality... the imports have the upper hand and are the ones controlling the market in this segment.

Ps. Chevy is following in Ford's steps and cancelling the Volt, Cruz, Impala and all the Cadillac/Buick version of those shared platforms. They need more AWD wagons IMO, half of those crossovers are smaller than a civic inside and yet they have the same undercarriage clearance and storage capacity.... like wtf are they making nowadays?

Well I agree w the OP. The suvs you mentioned above aren’t really suvs they’re crossovers. Trucks seem to be selling well but they’re pricing us working stiffs out.

We just got rid of a 2003 Chrysler Town&Country AWD Limited I bought new. It had 235,*** original tranny and engine. I know plenty of folks w Honda minivans that blew trannys under 75,*** miles.

My experience has been *** vehicles are more expensive. We have a 2016 Explorer my wife drives and I drive my 2000 Eddie Bauer Expy w 185,***.

I’m thinking of handing it down to my son and find a good low mile f150 w the 5.0 v8.

 

[Justinsc]

Back in the late 90's I was a service dispatcher at a Dodge dealer about 25 miles south of San Francisco. I had 2 guys that did nothing but transmission rebuilds on the Caravans. I had so many of them with fried tranny's, can't remember a day, that they and 1 other tech wasn't gutting, and rebuilding an automatic. People buy them out of American loyalty, but the Japanese vans got them beat all to heck. The Sienna, and others aren't without problems, but they stand a better chance of pushing over 200k.

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I work in the auto industry and my company does business with MANY (if not nearly all, in one form or another) of these import an domestics. The Japanese do crazy shit business wise. I’ve seen it first hand.

My experience has been that’s it’s cheaper to buy a used domestic if vehicle and repair as needed. That’s an understatement.

 

[1955moose]

I'm all for American built too. It's sad that we still can't get our vehicles as dependable overall as the competition. Don't get me wrong, their a lot better than in years past, but vehicles seem to be getting more troublesome again. I know everything in life has a compromise. I have a good friend that bought his Toyota Tundra new back in 05. When I asked him Eddie, what problems have you had? His reply, Steve, it's a Toyota, nothing. He doesn't drive it a lot , but he's got over 100k, and nothing besides maintenance.

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[Dorzak]

Back in the late 90's I was a service dispatcher at a Dodge dealer about 25 miles south of San Francisco. I had 2 guys that did nothing but transmission rebuilds on the Caravans. I had so many of them with fried tranny's, can't remember a day, that they and 1 other tech wasn't gutting, and rebuilding an automatic. People buy them out of American loyalty, but the Japanese vans got them beat all to heck. The Sienna, and others aren't without problems, but they stand a better chance of pushing over 200k.

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On the other side I drove my 2006 Caravan to 220k. Had to replace the water pump twice and alternator once. However it was starting to have more serious issues.

 

[rjdelp7]

On the other side I drove my 2006 Caravan to 220k. Had to replace the water pump twice and alternator once. However it was starting to have more serious issues.

A friend of mine drove for a medical transport company. They had Dodge Caravans, pushing 400K(not original engines or transmissions). The Ford E250's almost 300K on the original drive. He sent me a photo...View attachment 27859 View attachment 27859 View attachment 27859 View attachment 27859 train.

 

[JExpedition07]

The waters have also muddied on what segment is what. A midsize pickup used to be a compact little daily driver. An SUV was a body on frame half ton truck, and then there were sedans. I’m eating lunch in my expy parked nose to nose with an 07’ Tacoma as I type this. The supposedly half size pickup is as big or bigger than my Expedition stock in most dimensions by eye. Yet it sports a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder while my half ton sports a V8 engine. Two different schools of thought in very similar sized and function vehicles. Mine the classic American body on frame heavy SUV with a 5.4L V8 engine and big radiator. Then a slightly bigger pickup with a small 2.7L 4 Cyliner engine and small radiator. I’m sure the expy runs circles around it with a trailer in tow or even daily driving but still. Back when they wouldn’t even be comparable on size or function. Now they size right up next to each other. What is better or more capable is up for debate. The Expedition has more power and capacity, but this comes with a bigger and heavier powertrain and overall curb weight. The tacoma may even be faster in daily driving with half the engine who knows? Interesting to me how all this stuff comes together. For me I’ll take the V8 and increased capacity all day. But there are a lot more options that overlap these days.

 

[Machete]

Price inflation is also due to artificially low interest rates and lax qualifying where if you have a job you can get financing by a 2nd or 3rd tier lender.

Take a look at college tuition inflation. Your hair will fall out!

I’m eyeing a 2011 f150 King Ranch w 88k mi. The used dealer wants $23,900 which is ridiculous. That truck has been in their warehouse showroom for 10 1/2 months. I can wait.

 

[1955moose]

You can get a brand spanking new lariat for about 40k pretty much fully loaded. 24k for an almost 8 year old one, forget it. $15-18k sounds more in line. Always do a Kelly or Nada blue book, allot for mileage, accessories, etc.

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[1955moose]

Actually if that 2011 is real clean, and fully loaded, like tow package, sunroof, 4 wheel drive, crew cab, Nada estimates it at $24,900. I punched in 6.2 engine and all the goodies. If you can get him down a bit, it's not out of line.

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[JExpedition07]

Actually if that 2011 is real clean, and fully loaded, like tow package, sunroof, 4 wheel drive, crew cab, Nada estimates it at $24,900. I punched in 6.2 engine and all the goodies. If you can get him down a bit, it's not out of line.

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I always eye up the 11-14’ 6.2L V8 F-150s. One of these days when one comes up again I’m going to grab it. Mostly Platinum and Harley Davidson trims but also Lariat Limited.

 

[1955moose]

The bigger motor 6.2's are harder to find, and they price them accordingly. Like a 60's muscle car, the difference between a 350 small block and a 427/454 can be a huge difference. That's why your dad or older brother always said buy the top line one if you can. Big difference down the road when you sell it. I'm betting that 6.2 motor pumps the price by at least 3 grand or more, simply cause theirs very few.

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[JExpedition07]

The bigger motor 6.2's are harder to find, and they price them accordingly. Like a 60's muscle car, the difference between a 350 small block and a 427/454 can be a huge difference. That's why your dad or older brother always said buy the top line one if you can. Big difference down the road when you sell it. I'm betting that 6.2 motor pumps the price by at least 3 grand or more, simply cause theirs very few.

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The 6.2 has a reputation of being bulletproof as well, and great point on the rarity. It’s the magical unicorn of the lineup. It’s the most powerful and fun engine in the F-150. Cant go wrong with 411 Hosepower and 434 lb ft of torque!

 

[jeff kushner]

My co-worker bought a Superduty 250 with the 6.2 engine and it is a marvel of SMOOTH! That engine at idle with the hood open is a third quieter than m,y 3.5!

Yeah, it's a nice engine!

jeff

 

[TXFishin]

When a new truck can easily run $75000.00 MSRP, you have to expect an adjustment eventually. I have a wife, two kids, mortgage and monthly expenses. I'm a middle middle class, adult male, the target audience for these new truck, and there is no I could or would spend that much on a new truck when I can get one 2 years old for less then half of a new one.

^ This

The price on new trucks and SUV's are insane, and right behind that is the people who are financing ridiculously long terms, greater than 5 to 6 years.

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[jimz]

Since Ford is a worldwide seller and other countries economies seem to be less than that is America it makes me wonder what other countries pay for these high dollar vehicles and who buys them. But then I am amazed at how my grandkids afford to survive. Surely they all are bank robbers in disguise.

 

[Adieu]

Since Ford is a worldwide seller and other countries economies seem to be less than that is America it makes me wonder what other countries pay for these high dollar vehicles and who buys them. But then I am amazed at how my grandkids afford to survive. Surely they all are bank robbers in disguise.

Expedition, V8 F150's, and Superduty aren't even officially available in most markets, and special-order only where they are.

Ford showrooms in most markets flog 1.2L Focuses and the like.

 

[TXFishin]

Here is prime example.

A couple of years ago I bought a 2012 Ford Expedition EL Limited 4X4 with 65k miles on it, body and everything in mint condition, loaded with every option available, all leather, 3 tv screens, heated/cooled seats all the way around, front and rear captain chairs, auto leveling suspension, you name it, it has it.

I knew it needed some maintenance, engine checked out perfect, no oil leaks, compression issues, nothing like that, and being mechanically inclined I bought it for $12k

I wanted it for a secondary vehicle, family hauler, boat / RV towing, etc.

I wanted to put it back on top shape and be as reliable as I could.

I did all the work myself minus the tranny because I don't have facility to lift it and price was reasonable

To put it back on top shape, I did the following;

New battery

New Tires

New Plugs, fuel and air filter

Re-man tranny and transfer case

New 4X4 actuators (due to vacuum leak)

New half axle seals on the front

New brakes & rotors (heavy duty for towing)

Replaced manifold gasket and studs (known issue)

New bearing hub assembly

New Shocks / Springs front

Total invested when done, including cost of vehicle) about $22k

That same vehicle new, when I called around, with all options is running $76k to $84k

Even in the event I have to drop a new engine in it at some point, that would put me around $30k

Still less than half of a new vehicle in like new condition.


When I first seen the vehicle I could see it written all over it, a guy brings it in for brakes or something else minor, the salesmen walks up something along the lines of "Well, the brakes will cost $2,200 (which is crazy, heavy duty towing brakes and rotors DIY was around $375) then he explains the 4X4 actuators need replacing around $1,500 ($250 DIY), your manifold is starting to leak, another $2,000 ( $200 DIY), front shocks and springs $2,500 ($200 DIY), and the crazy list goes.

The customer is now looking at well over $8k just for some basic maintenance done at a shop, not including tires $1,200, tranny and transfer case, axle seals, etc at who knows how much a shop would cost.

The salesmen them turns around "You know, just for the cost of brakes and tires, I can put you in a brand new one under warranty for the same monthly notes.

The buyer doesn't care that it will be a 20 year loan, ending up paying close to $100k for a vehicle, all he cares about is the monthly payment.

And here I am, with a like new vehicle, paid off in 4 years.


I see the same thing, probably even worse when it comes to boats and RV's

It's beyond crazy


Relentless

 

[rjdelp7]

Here is prime example.

A couple of years ago I bought a 2012 Ford Expedition EL Limited 4X4 with 65k miles on it, body and everything in mint condition, loaded with every option available, all leather, 3 tv screens, heated/cooled seats all the way around, front and rear captain chairs, auto leveling suspension, you name it, it has it.

I knew it needed some maintenance, engine checked out perfect, no oil leaks, compression issues, nothing like that, and being mechanically inclined I bought it for $12k

I wanted it for a secondary vehicle, family hauler, boat / RV towing, etc.

I wanted to put it back on top shape and be as reliable as I could.

I did all the work myself minus the tranny because I don't have facility to lift it and price was reasonable

To put it back on top shape, I did the following;

New battery

New Tires

New Plugs, fuel and air filter

Re-man tranny and transfer case

New 4X4 actuators (due to vacuum leak)

New half axle seals on the front

New brakes & rotors (heavy duty for towing)

Replaced manifold gasket and studs (known issue)

New bearing hub assembly

New Shocks / Springs front

Total invested when done, including cost of vehicle) about $22k

That same vehicle new, when I called around, with all options is running $76k to $84k

Even in the event I have to drop a new engine in it at some point, that would put me around $30k

Still less than half of a new vehicle in like new condition.


When I first seen the vehicle I could see it written all over it, a guy brings it in for brakes or something else minor, the salesmen walks up something along the lines of "Well, the brakes will cost $2,200 (which is crazy, heavy duty towing brakes and rotors DIY was around $375) then he explains the 4X4 actuators need replacing around $1,500 ($250 DIY), your manifold is starting to leak, another $2,000 ( $200 DIY), front shocks and springs $2,500 ($200 DIY), and the crazy list goes.

The customer is now looking at well over $8k just for some basic maintenance done at a shop, not including tires $1,200, tranny and transfer case, axle seals, etc at who knows how much a shop would cost.

The salesmen them turns around "You know, just for the cost of brakes and tires, I can put you in a brand new one under warranty for the same monthly notes.

The buyer doesn't care that it will be a 20 year loan, ending up paying close to $100k for a vehicle, all he cares about is the monthly payment.

And here I am, with a like new vehicle, paid off in 4 years.


I see the same thing, probably even worse when it comes to boats and RV's

It's beyond crazy


Relentless

Putting $10K+ in a $12K 'back up' SUV, does not make sense. Why change a good transmission and transfer case? There has been others on this forum, that have amazingly done this. The 6R80 can go, at least 150k. Maybe 200k+. DIY is OK, but what is 'your' time worth? What if your AC goes or catalytic converters? Big dollar items. Hows is the driver seat and carpets? You get rear ended and totaled, all your going to get is book value. Realistically, the 2012 Expeditions sold for around $45K with rebates. 2012's do not have 4x4 actuators. It is Auto4wd and electronically controlled.

 

[JExpedition07]

wow changing out a 6R80 with 65k is pretty nuts. They are a bandless trans and when maintained they go 300,000+ miles with no rebuild.

They aren’t picky like the 4R.