When it rains it pours - pats strikes again

[Captain Morgan]

I had an alarm and a HU installed Sunday, and when I brought it home I noticed that after a few minutes of idling and listening to the radio a lot of stuff shut off. I turned off the key and back to ON and the radio came back on etc.

Forward to this afternoon and I'm on my way to a meeting. The truck started fine, everything looked OK to me, and I went a couple of blacks and over a speed bump. The radio went dark, the lights went dark, but the engine kept running. The happened once more in route and finally the X died at an intersection where I could conveniently block a major thoroughfare in the rain causing a couple of blocks of back up. Sweet.

I heard about 6 long beeps from somewhere and the truck just stopped dead, no lights, no dash lights, no vanity\dome lights, nothing worked, even my hazards were barely working. When I would turn the key to ON or try to start the engine the THEFT lights blinks quickly. I tried locking and unlocking the trucks with the key but it made no difference.

The tow truck wielded a small jump start and the truck started fine but ran poorly on the way and I didn't think I was going to make it all the way back. The hazards wouldn't work, the windows wouldn't work, nada.

I did barely make it home and put the charger on it, then discovered that the hazards were still on and trying to work so I turned that off.

The voltage was just over 11v without the charger on the posts. I'm going to let it charge till tomorrow morning and then unlock and attempt to start the truck with the other key I have.

Hopefully I can get back to some known good base and check the alternator, fuses etc before diagnosing any further or having new keys made and everything reprogrammed, relearned. Hopefully the PATS thing doesn't stick around.



Feel free to toss in suggestions as I'm sure I forgot something in the scheme.

Thx!


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[alaskanexpy]

sounds like a bad alternator and possibly bad battery.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Well, I could say something like "Oh it's been just fine up until now" . . . but you could say that about 99% of everything that ever goes bad so there's no real logic there.

Once I start the truck I can remove the + terminal and read the voltage and tell if the alt at least is putting anything out with no load. In daylight it will be easier to check all the fuses too.

I want to say that when I was in the driveway listening to the radio that the truck beeped before everything shut off but now I'm not sure.


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[alaskanexpy]

when you loose voltage they do very funny things.

the alternator went on my expedition last winter on a day it was a high of -10. it had 83k miles on it at the time and no expectation to have to replace it. got a call from the other half that the truck died...asked a few questions and knew exactly what it was. came over jumped it with the excursion and limped home. replaced the alternator no issues.

just check voltage with the truck running. you should be seeing atleast 14.0 V at idle.

 

[03expyMG]

Did u scrap the tablet idea??

 

[Captain Morgan]

Did u scrap the tablet idea??

The tablet is the reason why I had the HU installed, it plays audio from the 1\8" stereo plug on the front or a USB stick. It also has BT so I can stream media from my phone to it or from the ASUS tablet or my laptop via BT. The HU also has RCA out on the back and the installers stubbed this out for me so I can run whatever I'm playing to some boxes I have with a 1,000w amp in it. Outdoor concert time.



After about 3.5 hrs on the charger the batt was up to 12v no load.

I was able to easily start the vehicle. While in it I saw no indication of the THEFT flashing light and everything appears to work, windows, door locks, rear wiper, dome lights, headlights on bright, cluster etc.

The battery voltage indicator says that the voltage is OK, in the middle, but when I measured it at the posts it had dropped back down to 11.3ish and the vehicle is def running on battery, not alternator.

The posts are clean and shiny so that's not the issue. I was not able to identify what fuse may have blown etc and just put it back on charge for the night.


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[alaskanexpy]

yeah the factory battery gauge on the dash is not a real gauge. by the time that shows anything its too late and you dont have far to go.


def the alternator.

 

[Captain Morgan]

The big fuses were pulled when the plugs and COPs were put in, I'm going to double check those connections too. If I have to replace the alternator I may as well upgrade.


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[Captain Morgan]

Considering that this coincides with the installation of an alarm system and a HU replacement, I'm thinking it's more likely a blown fuse or loose connector that prevents 12v from turning the alternator ON (yes this is a real condition).

I have new parts shoved way up above the instrument panel and lord knows how many splices such as the pwr wires for the old HU etc. I can conceive that as part of these installations a fuse was blown which disabled the alternator and left me with just enough juice to drive home for 5 minutes and listen to some tunes for 5 minutes. Then allow me to leave the house today and only get 2 miles.

I'm going down these paths for inestigation:


I just got threw working on a 1998 Ford F150 with the 4.2 V6 engine and I replaced the alternator with voltage regulator and put a brand new battery on it and the truck was still not charging. I also checked every fuse as well. Well I had the alternator and battery checked and both came up good. Then someone said it could be the ignition switch under the dash so I replaced that also. Still no charge. Well I then started checking the 3 wire harness on the alternator and only 1of the 3 wires was showing any voltage. SO I FIGURED OUT THAT THE GREEN WIRE WITH THE MAROON TRACER IS COMING FROM THE IGNITION SWITCH, WHEN YOU TURN THE KEY ON IT TELLS THE VOLTAGE REGULATOR TO START CHARGING. THAT WASN'T SENDING THE SIGNAL TO THE VR TO START CHARGING SO THE VR WAS SHOWING AS A BAD VOLTAGE REGULATOR (VR) . SO I RAN A WIRE OFF THE BATTERY STRAIGHT TO THE GREEN WIRE AS A TEMP FIX AND IT FIXED ALL MY CHARGE PROBLEMS.

Thanks...look at the wiring schematic below, you need to be sure the 175 amp and 20 amp fuses are good...they could have blown. You should also use a voltmeter to check for good voltage from those fuses to the alternator itself...if the fuses and voltages are good...the battery may be causing the alternator to not charge even if it tests good, or you have a defective new alternator. And be sure your battery cables are clean and tight on the battery, loose cables will kill a new alternator


The Alternator’s Voltage Regulator needs an injection of 12 Volts to get the Alternator to start producing a Charge. This Voltage comes from a fuse and is provided at all times, even when the engine is turned Off. In this test, you’re gonna’ verify that there is indeed Power (12 Volts) available in this circuit.

With the key off, check for power on the orange with blue stripe wire in the alternator plug. Let me know whether or not it does. Thanks

Sounds like a possible problem in the fuse panel/GEM module. The F150's and Expeditions were known to have issues with a windshield water leak which would allow water to channel its way(not alot) into the back of the interior fuse panel causing all sorts of weird electrical system concerns.You can verify this by removing the interior fuse panel. There are 2 large connectors held in place with 10mm bolts on the back of the panel.Remove them,unbolt the bolts and nuts on the front and unplug the connectors on the side, not very easy to get out but once out remove the module on the back which is probably held in place by torxs fasteners and inspect the area where the 2 large connectors went in for any signs of blue/white corrosion or water intrusion.Replacing the fuse panel & GEM module along with resealing the windshield will fix this type of concern

http://s3.amazonaws.com/2cp-images/question_images/15434/large.gif?1326762213

I need a fuse diagram for a 1998 ford expedition,I ... - JustAnswer

http://www.expeditionforum.com/f16/98-expedition-wont-start-no-power-lights-nothing-15314/


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[Captain Morgan]

The green wire with the maroon tracer is the correct answer.

After pulling and scraping the lugs on every fuse I found the green wire. It's appr 3' long from the alt to the connector behind the MAIN fuses at the firewall.

It has a single pin and I used an alligator clip from there to the + lead of the VM.

The battery voltage with the engine running was 12.1v and when I touched the lead to the + post the engine idle decreased and the voltage jumped to 14.6v supply.

Now I just have to get the installers to clean up under the dash and find where the issue was created and get it fixed.

I wish I could change the title now since the PATS thing was just due to the low voltage and or turning the key repeatedly to start the vehicle.


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[Captain Morgan]

EDIT

I replaced this post with an update:

If any bulb or connection in the cluster becomes unseated this will result in the loss of the cluster status and warning indicators AND THE ALTERNATOR EXCITER 12v feed for GR\R wire.

So there you have it, problem solved.

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