Where does the oil go?

[hammerg26]

I have 1999 EB 5.4 with 207K miles. It "uses" oil, meaning I have to add oil between changes, sometimes up to 1.5 quarts. I keep hearing that my Expy is "using" oil, but not sure what that means.

1. The ground is clean under it - no drips, no nothing.
2. There is no smell of burning oil coming from the exhaust, and the exhaust is colorless.
3. PCV seems normal - when I recently changed it, it was still "rattling" without issues.

I just put in some Lucas Oil Stabilizer to see if that helps, not really that concerned about it - BUT, my son (who is learning about cars) asked me and I did not have a good answer for him... and he called me on it (respectfully).

Thoughts?

 

[coupe11]

No experience (and don't want any either) with the 5.4 Ford engines "using" oil.

Several of my Chevy small blocks have "used" oil over the years.

You say you have no spots on the floor. How about signs on the intake/valve covers, timing cover, etc? If it's leaking some it may burn/evaporate from engine/exhaust heat while you're driving it. You might not smell it with the windows up, speed of the vehicle, where the under hood air bleeds/vents to while the vehicle is moving. Not saying it is, just saying it can happen.

It doesn't smoke on start up? That (in the SBC) is s sign of oil leaking past valve seals. For some reason that seems to be worse sometimes than others. My 86 IROC did it the first few years I had it. It was called "The Bow Tie Salute." Then it stopped doing it. I was so used to it I failed to really notice when it stopped, but it hasn't done it for years.

It doesn't smoke when you hit the gas pedal, the transmission drops a gear or two and the rpm jumps up as fuel/air is dumped into the intake/cylinders?

It's going somewhere. Either leaking or burning. Somewhere, at some time, under some conditions it's got to show up.

 

[Trainmaster]

With 207,000 miles, the motor's burning oil. A quart and a half between oil changes isn't much, so you won't see or smell it. "Normal" for this kind of mileage. I believe Ford considers a quart in 1000 miles to be okay even in a new engine before they authorize warranty work.

Some oil drips down valve stems into the cylinders due to worn seals, some oil pumps up into the cylinders via worn rings. There it's burned with the fuel. Make sure your PCV valve's not clogged and that system's working. A clogged PCV will permit pressure to build in the crankcase forcing more oil into the cylinders to be burnt.

Thickening oil with additives or using a thicker oil can lessen burning, at the risk of slightly poorer lubrication qualities, lessened fuel mileage and labored cranking in cold weather.

 

[Gary Waugh]

As stated, your engine is a bit worn and it is burning oil, what your losing is quite a small amount, so its unlikely you will see it as smoke, but it is burning it and you will find soot on the inside of your exhaust system. It really isn't doing much harm, the biggest risk is that it might block the catalytic converter over time, but a rebuild is very expensive so just live with it, but check the oil level regularly.. Given the timing chain issues on the expedition, I would NOT add additives to thicken the oil, just check the level regularly and replace it at the stated intervals. It will probably go for another 200K miles.

Gary

 

[hammerg26]

Thanks for the thoughts and replies.
Will just keep on plugging then.
I don’t think the Lucas will hurt anything - does not get that cold where I live. I will just make sure I keep changing fluids regularly - I use M1 5w-30 for oil - always had good luck with that.
I appreciate it.


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[1955moose]

I too use Mobil 1 5w30, and burn more than you do. Mine is 1 year newer with half the mileage, 107k at present. Head gasket oil leaks are notorious on 99-02 models. It's possible that a combo of the head gaskets and weak oil rings cause the burn. At $6.00 or less per quart, I wouldn't sweat it. One of our members Toby U had good luck with marvel mystery oil in the crankcase, to slow down the burn. You use it once, about 600 miles or so before oil change. It frees up the Piston rings in some cases. Because the pre 05 models don't have cam phasers or solenoids, their is no side effect. Additives like this are not recommended on the 05 on up though.

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[Trainmaster]

You may want to take a look at the side of motor where the head meets the block just above the starter motor. That's a common place for a head gasket leak at around 200,000 miles. Mine dripped a bit of oil and anti-freeze there.

 

[TobyU]

I also have had great results with Restore engine treatment.

First of all, an 20 year old engine with 200K on it is more than likely GOING to use or lose some oil IF you use full synthetic.
I don't care WHAT people say or youtube videos.
I have seen it TOO many times and the last only being about 2 years ago so I am not talking about early synthetics or old cork gaskets!

5w30 should be a HM high mileage IF you are going to run a full syn in this type of situation.

In north Georgia there is no way I would be running a 5w-30 full syn.
Syn flows SOOO much better than conv when cold and it doesn't get "cold" there.

10w-30 full syn is completely fine in a 99 5.4 and a HM will help with use and leaks.

I am in SW Ohio and it was a high of 39 today and I just put some 10w30 HM conv in my 98 Town Car with 213k on it.

I would put a 8cyl bottle of Restore in it (about $8-9 at Walmart) and add one with each oil change.
I had an 89 Town Car with 302 with 117k on it that took 3 oil changes with restore after switching to Mobil 1 to get back to the same level of oil use it had when I bought it which was about 1/4-1/2 qt every 3000-3300.
The first two synthetic ones used over 2 qts between changes!!

A 99 5.4 was designed and sold to use a 5w-30 standard dino oil.
A 10w-30 is fine if not in extreme cold temps but taking it to full syn negates this.
10w-30 syn is better than 5w-30 conventional.

 

[hammerg26]

Hmmm. Had not thought of that.
10w-30 Full Synthetic - something to consider.

I may Simple Green the entire engine to clean it - see what i see.

More research to come.


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[hammerg26]

As an aside - the thing I could have done differently in the last oil change is not use 5w-20 M1 HM FS.

Due to change in 3k, so will update viscosity then.

Thanks.


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[hammerg26]

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why...l-1-high-mileage-guide/high-mileage-challenge

Thant was interesting


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[captain chaos]

It could easily be burning it. Catalytic converters will burn off a great deal of oil without showing the tell-tale blue smoke.

1.5qt between changes would annoy me but it's far cry from an alarming amount. Like has been said, check for signs of head gasket leaks or other sources of loss and just keep trucking, being sure to check your oil level regularly in case it gets worse for some reason.

 

[TobyU]

I forgot to mention that the Lucas you added simply thickens the oil. It doesn't really do anything else.
On your next Oil Change try the restore instead of the Lucas. It's a much thinner additive so it certainly can't hurt anything and you just might get better results that you did with the Lucas. I have had great results with reduced oil consumption.
Then with the possibility of going to a 10w30 synthetic or even a 5w30 high-mileage conventional oil or at least something that's high-mileage you may improve the situation even more.

 

[rjdelp7]

Switch to 5w-30 and it will cut oil burning in half. Ford only recommends 5w20 in the USA to save .3 mpg. Pull the dip stick tube out about 1/2". It will release vacuum on start up. Worn valve guides, let oil get sucked past. Watch the tailpipe on cold start up. Synthetic oil does make much smoke, when it burns.

 

[knewblewkorvett]

I too use Mobil 1 5w30, and burn more than you do. Mine is 1 year newer with half the mileage, 107k at present. Head gasket oil leaks are notorious on 99-02 models. It's possible that a combo of the head gaskets and weak oil rings cause the burn. At $6.00 or less per quart, I wouldn't sweat it. One of our members Toby U had good luck with marvel mystery oil in the crankcase, to slow down the burn. You use it once, about 600 miles or so before oil change. It frees up the Piston rings in some cases. Because the pre 05 models don't have cam phasers or solenoids, their is no side effect. Additives like this are not recommended on the 05 on up though.

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My 97 leaks oil through the head gasket and it seems to be getting worse. Is there anything I can do short of replacing the head gasket? In other words, does this "marvel mystery oil" help with leaking head gaskets? If not, is there anything that helps? I can't see putting the $ into the old Expedition even though she looks new still. 111,000 miles only.

 

[rjdelp7]

My 97 leaks oil through the head gasket and it seems to be getting worse. Is there anything I can do short of replacing the head gasket? In other words, does this "marvel mystery oil" help with leaking head gaskets? If not, is there anything that helps? I can't see putting the $ into the old Expedition even though she looks new still. 111,000 miles only.

Bad Head gaskets, do not directly cause oil burning. They are not a 'known issue' on 99-02. Head gaskets sit on top of the block/bottom of heads(top of piston and valves). If there is an issue with them, it is usually a coolant one. Marvel mystery oil, will not stop any burning. It has a Kerosene smell. Putting a distillate in your oil, will break it down and ruin it. The leak you seeing is probably the valve cover gasket. One reason they may leak, is back pressure in the exhaust, possibly from a bad Cat. The pressure backs up into the engine and causes leaks in the oil pan and valve covers.

 

[TobyU]

No. The Marvel's will not help with head gaskets and could even worse in the problem. It is only for old Saturn's the original Saturn's because they had a massive oil control ring sticking and coking issue.
And for those you want to use berryman's B12 and pour it in the spark plug hole and let it soak for two hours before the Marvels and synthetic oil anyways. But back to your vehicle.
The best thing would be high mileage oil that has seal swellers to help prevent leaks and a special extra bottle of engine oil stop leak but not the thick honey stuff like motor honey or STP or Lucas. Bars leak has ago when that Walmart sells that's a nice thin weight oil. Or if you really want to get some results go to O'Reilly Auto Parts or get online and order you red angel engine oil stop leak. It's 20 bucks a bottle at the stores but it certainly works. Follow the recommendations on the back because I'm not sure if you use the entire bottle for a 6 quart crankcase capacity .
The bars leak at Walmart is under $4. It's basically just an extra dose of what the high-mileage oils have in there so it takes a lot of work. The red angel stuff is a very thin watery liquid and works faster and usually better. It's a good Band-Aid Hail Mary and they have a money back guarantee so if it doesn't work they will send you a check back if you send them the old bottle back so it cost you about $3 to get your 20 back. I have used three of the company's products and they are very high quality and about the only ones that stand a chance of doing what all the claims they and all the other products that companies make claim to do.
Every product on the Shelf says it does this that and the other and how great it is but few of them do much and some do nothing. The red Angel products sometimes work 100% and other times at least work quite well.
So I would add one of the thinner stop leaks to your oil and at the next oil change but I high-mileage oil in there. Unless you're ready for an oil change now then you can just change it and add the additive at the same time.

 

[Wal92tt]

I have the same issue. I've found it to be normal with age/mileage of these 5.4's, slight leak at the valve guides/seals which then go ****. Unless you're seeing stains/leaks, I would keep on truck'n! Don't mess with it or you'll open a can of expensive worms!

 

[1955moose]

Toby, you stated in an earlier post that you had good luck with oil burning using Marvel mystery oil. I threw a small bottle in my oil on Saturday. I will be dropping oil in about a week or so. I heard no noise difference, so that's good, nor am I expecting miracles, just maybe a slowdown of oil consumption. Again at $6.00 a quart, every 1,000 miles, no huge deal either way. As to our op, no additive will seal up a leaky head gasket. If you had a break in the head gasket causing oil/coolant mixture, that would be bad. Nothing short of pulling heads, and replacing the gaskets, will fix that. In the 18 cars/trucks I've owned in the past 48 years, only my 85 Mustang 5.0, and this Suv are the only oil burners. Figures it would be the one I'm keeping!

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[TobyU]

Toby, you stated in an earlier post that you had good luck with oil burning using Marvel mystery oil. I threw a small bottle in my oil on Saturday. I will be dropping oil in about a week or so. I heard no noise difference, so that's good, nor am I expecting miracles, just maybe a slowdown of oil consumption. Again at $6.00 a quart, every 1,000 miles, no huge deal either way. As to our op, no additive will seal up a leaky head gasket. If you had a break in the head gasket causing oil/coolant mixture, that would be bad. Nothing short of pulling heads, and replacing the gaskets, will fix that. In the 18 cars/trucks I've owned in the past 48 years, only my 85 Mustang 5.0, and this Suv are the only oil burners. Figures it would be the one I'm keeping!

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It depends on why it's using oil. If yours is not leaking then Marvel's could help some. It will help unstick the oil control rings often.
It's also highly detergent so if you have any marginal gaskets it could start some leaks but it really has it with anything I've ever put it in.
The main thing I was talking about previously was on Old Saturn's or you have to decarbonize them and soak the Pistons from the spark plug holes for at least 2 hours and then run a highly detergent fully synthetic oil like Rotella T6 5w 40 or Mobil 1 5w 40 European and also Marvel's mystery oil helps with that. The oil consumption which is all blowing out the tailpipe gets better and better the more miles you put on it with the synthetic oil in the marbles. By the third or fourth oil change the things hardly using any wall compared to what it was. I had a Saturn that use a quart of oil every 200 to 300 miles. It was at least once a week. After the treatment it got to be half as much and then buy the second or third oil change with Rotella T6 I can go 2 months and I only use a quart.

Now one that has valve stem seals leaking, Marvel's isn't going to help and neither is much else .The seals sweller might help a little bit as well a thicker weight and a high mileage oil