Yup, another towing question

[KenInCa]

Me again with another newbie question. I've tried the search button so please don't flame me with the normal retort.

Here's what I got:
2003 Expy 4.6L 2wd
Came with tow bar, 4&7 pin connectors

I did:
Motts mod
K&N air filter
e-fans
underdrive pulley
EvoHT tuner, switching to all different programs to see which one works best for my daily drive or performance.

Recently added engine oil cooler (Hayden HD 1040) which I have not towed my TT yet.

I pull a pull a TT (26 ft) about 3-4 times a year, and this year after all my mods, I over heated pretty quickly and really ticked me off. I think with all the mods I got a little more oomph, but made the engine run hotter, which I didn't notice initially (Or I didn't pay attention before).

So my question, with installing the engine oil cooler, how much of a temp drop should I expect while towing? On the box it says "UP to" 20 degrees (By experience I have now ignored their claims! )

Is there anything else that I could do to keep the engine a little cooler?

Thanks in advance,
Ken

 

[bedrck46]

it would be nice to know all the temps before and after any changes you made

what amount of temp drop did you experience

what was the ambient temps
what was the coolant temp
what was the trans temp
what was the oil temp

and what device did you use to get these temps

 

[KenInCa]

it would be nice to know all the temps before and after any changes you made

what amount of temp drop did you experience

what was the ambient temps
what was the coolant temp
what was the trans temp
what was the oil temp

and what device did you use to get these temps

The temps that I get is from the EvoHT tuner:
Ambient: 105
Coolant: (only temp reading was "engine temp") will towing up hill got up to 244 degrees.
Trans: None
Oil: None

This tuner does not have the option to read Transmission & Oil temp, unless I didn't see it. I'll look again at lunch to see if I have that option.

As part of the first question, I JUST installed the oil engine cooler and do not know what the temp readings are when towing, I just was wondering for those that did install the oil cooler what they experienced in engine temp change.

Thanks,
Ken

 

[stamp11127]

Look at it from a logical viewpoint. Which is larger - the oil cooler or the radiator? Which one has the most surface area?
Did you increase airflow with the efans or reduce it?

I used to work on medium duty trucks with diesel engines. Out of 239 of them not a one had an efan but they did have one hell of a fan blade with a viscous or air fan clutch. So why is that? Airflow plain and simple.

You also have a single row radiator if it hasn't been upgraded to the 2 row.

How old is the waterpump and tstat?

 

[bedrck46]

if you don't know what the oil temp was before and after how can you make the statement

On the box it says "UP to" 20 degrees (By experience I have now ignored their claims! )

have you towed the TT with the expy yet?

 

[Bowesmobile]

Another thing to consider is the underdrive pulley set. It slows the water pump down and you get less water circulation causing cooling issues. I have a similar set-up minus the underdrive pulleys and adding a two row radiator. I also changed the temp of my thermostat to a 185 deg. So now my truck on a 97deg. day running the air conditioning on the highway at 70mph will run at 172-174 degrees. My trans stays 20 deg cooler than the engine. I haven't towed yet. But my truck used to run at 227-235 degrees in the same conditions. Also flushing your cooling system and making sure your water pump has all of the vanes is crucial. Just before I did all the modifications last year I over heated hauling my camper. Got the truck home and pulled apart. I found the water pump was missing three vanes. this caused a lack of flow that contributed to the overheat. Just something to think about.

 

[bedrck46]

did the expy come with the HD tow package also does the 4.6 have a one or two row radiator

 

[stamp11127]

Another thing to consider is the boiling point of your coolant. It isn't your main problem but if you are running mostly water you end up with steam. And that doesn't cool well.

To the OP: To answer your question about what to expect for the temp drop of the oil cooler, it is all dependant on airflow, surface area of the cooler and flow rate. If it isn't getting the best of the three then anything above 0 is good.

 

[bedrck46]

Looking at the owners manuar for your year it list the tow limits as 0-5000 max for your expy

Engine
Rear axle
ratio
Maximum GCWR -
kg (lbs.)
Trailer weight
range (0 -
maximum) kg
(lbs.)
4x2
4.6L All 4762 (10500) 0-2268 (0-5000)
5.4L All 6577 (14500) 0–4060 (0–8950)
4x4
4.6L All 4853 (10700) 0-2268 (0-5000)
5.4L All 6577 (14500) 0–3924 (0–8650)
Maximum frontal area of trailer is 5.6 square meters (60 square feet)

If your towing a 6k trailer it would appear you are past your limits thus increasing the load on the engine

 

[KenInCa]

You also have a single row radiator if it hasn't been upgraded to the 2 row.

How old is the waterpump and tstat?

Radiator has 2 rows. The one closest to the engine was replace last year.
EDIT: WRONG.... I only have 1 row. Doh, the one in front is the AC condenser......
EDIT AGAIN!! I'm not sure if it's one or two. I believe it's two as thick as it is, but I cannot verify it. I look at the OEM replacement and it says two, but I'll have to investigate further.

Waterpump is still stock.
T-stat was changed last year.

if you don't know what the oil temp was before and after how can you make the statement

On the box it says "UP to" 20 degrees (By experience I have now ignored their claims! )

have you towed the TT with the expy yet?

I was assuming (I know, assume=....) that with the engine oil temp would have a certain relationship with coolant temp, especially towing. In general was hoping for a cooler coolant while towing.

I have towed the TT many times, but NOT WITH THE OIL COOLER.

Another thing to consider is the underdrive pulley set. It slows the water pump down and you get less water circulation causing cooling issues. I have a similar set-up minus the underdrive pulleys and adding a two row radiator. I also changed the temp of my thermostat to a 185 deg. So now my truck on a 97deg. day running the air conditioning on the highway at 70mph will run at 172-174 degrees. My trans stays 20 deg cooler than the engine. I haven't towed yet. But my truck used to run at 227-235 degrees in the same conditions. Also flushing your cooling system and making sure your water pump has all of the vanes is crucial. Just before I did all the modifications last year I over heated hauling my camper. Got the truck home and pulled apart. I found the water pump was missing three vanes. this caused a lack of flow that contributed to the overheat. Just something to think about.

I will definitely look into changing the H2O pump or at least opening that up to check.

Looking at the owners manuar for your year it list the tow limits as 0-5000 max for your expy

I know that I'm at the limit of my capacity and most likely over with the lack-luster 4.6L engine. It was the buying the cart before the horses. But it is what it is till I can afford to change the situation, since I only go fairly short excursions (wish I had that truck), about 3 hours taking it slow on the hills. My TT is at 4.5K, so full loaded I'm over the limit.

 

[stamp11127]

The oil helps to cool the internal engine parts that can't transfer the heat to the coolant easily. Big oil coolers and big airflow will help but are not the primary cooling method.
If it were me I would replace the waterpump and go back to the original fan and pulley setup to establish a baseline. Then make one change at a time and record the results. Once finished, you will know what combinations work for your towing situation.

You may think the 4.6 is lackluster - the interceptor police package will change your mind. Lets just say they left the shop with very little carbon buildup....

 

[bedrck46]

at 4.5k you getting close to the limit empty depending on how many people and gear you pack in the expy. You would play hell with that set up here in PA on our small hills but I won't worry for you most likely won't make it over the Rockies

 

[bedrck46]

You may think the 4.6 is lackluster - the interceptor police package will change your mind. Lets just say they left the shop with very little carbon buildup....

Just to be a PITA can the interceptor police package tow 5,000 lbs?

 

[stamp11127]

If you set it up correctly, yes. Ford may not agree but it would do it - now for how long, that is another discussion.

 

[Paul2003]

The problem with the 4.6 isn't power it's torque. If you check the specs you'll see the 4.6 and 5.4 have the same bore. The difference is entirely stroke and that's what gives you low end torque.

The 4.6 is much better in the mustang. It's just not a tow engine.

 

[toms89]

Just expanding on what has already been said.

Both underdrive pulleys and the electric fans will reduce your overall cooling capacity. Underdrive pulleys are much better in an race environment. I would never put them on a daily driver (again) no matter the claims made. You always are sacrificing something changing from the factory ratios. Factory is set up for worse case scenarios which you are no doubt experiencing. Underdrive pulleys may be satisfactory when conditions are more ideal.

Same goes for electric fans. They obviously save parasitic drag when airflow is not required but are no match for the airflow capacity of a mechanical fan.

Both electric fan and underdrive pulleys gave me issues with my modified mustang unless conditions were ideal. I knew the compromise up front and it bit me in the a$$ on hot summer days. Never again.... You will notice that as much as I have done with my expy that I do not have electric fans and for a reason.

Correcting these may help but you are likely over your rated towing capacity with the 4.6 which puts greater demand on the systems as is.

4.6 does have to work much harder as it does not have the low end torque of the 5.4.

 

[KenInCa]

Done!

Well I went on my trip and was running the coolant temp at 235 at the peak, and yes I was puckering quite a bit! With the e-fan and under-drive pulleys did give me more oomph going up the hills (cruising at 50-55 mph) BUT, came too close in over heating for my taste. Luckily I don't tow that load that often anyways and now I know that the truck can handle it as long as I take it easy and just watch the gauges.

On the flats and little stuff I was running only 5-10 degrees hotter than normal. Am ain't temp was 100.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Bowesmobile]

Just expanding on what has already been said.

Both underdrive pulleys and the electric fans will reduce your overall cooling capacity. Underdrive pulleys are much better in an race environment. I would never put them on a daily driver (again) no matter the claims made. You always are sacrificing something changing from the factory ratios. Factory is set up for worse case scenarios which you are no doubt experiencing. Underdrive pulleys may be satisfactory when conditions are more ideal.

Same goes for electric fans. They obviously save parasitic drag when airflow is not required but are no match for the airflow capacity of a mechanical fan.

Both electric fan and underdrive pulleys gave me issues with my modified mustang unless conditions were ideal. I knew the compromise up front and it bit me in the a$$ on hot summer days. Never again.... You will notice that as much as I have done with my expy that I do not have electric fans and for a reason.

Correcting these may help but you are likely over your rated towing capacity with the 4.6 which puts greater demand on the systems as is.

4.6 does have to work much harder as it does not have the low end torque of the 5.4.

I agree with everything you said Tom Minus the part about the electric fans. The fans I have installed on my Expy pull 4000CFM. That is 1300CFM more than the stock clutch fan set-up. When they turn on I can feel the air being pulled through the radiator in front of the grill. More air moving across the radiator means more cooling. In my set-up it works great. No dis-respect meant toward you Tom.