Compression test 01 Navigator

[Fordgirl01]

Got it-to do anything with the valves, the head has to come off. Hopefully I will end up finding the spring is broken down where I couldn’t see it.
On the plus side: I’m pretty sure the manifold bolts would come out-this is a vehicle from Arizona. Also, I know an excellent machinist who would not overcharge me.
Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that. I don’t really want to go that far, but I’m already way deeper into it than I though was possible....so there’s that! I do love a good challenge.

Thanks for the replies!


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[Fordgirl01]

I’m assuming I should not mess with the spring until I have another one to replace it? I’m guessing there is no way to hold the valve from falling other than the air? So i think I couldn’t try to take the spring off tonight to see if it’s broken and somehow hold the valve up and go get a spring-right?


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[stamp11127]

Old school trick is to feed as much twine or thin string into the cylinder as you can through the spark plug hole while the piston is bsfore tdc (btdc). Rotate the crank to tdc, if there is enough in the cylinder it will stop before tdc.
The interference between the string, piston and cylinder head will keep the valve from dropping into the cylinder.

 

[Fordgirl01]

Old school trick is to feed as much twine or thin string into the cylinder as you can through the spark plug hole while the piston is bsfore tdc (btdc). Rotate the crank to tdc, if there is enough in the cylinder it will stop before tdc.
The interference between the string, piston and cylinder head will keep the valve from dropping into the cylinder.

That’s helpful-thank you!! What if some of the string breaks off in there before you get it back out?


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[Fordgirl01]

I just googled your rope trick! I think I’m going to try this as I’m uneasy about the air since it leaks out! It seems like a great idea. Thanks again.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=66&t=156176
https://advrider.com/f/threads/how-to-do-the-ole-rope-trick.951976/

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[TobyU]

Rope is only way in your case since it is not holding air.

Get piston down a good way in bore ( you should only turn engine the correct way by hand and not backwards) and feed 3-4 feet in there (depending on what size you use) then slowly turn the balancer/crankshaft bolt clockwise (correct way again) until the rope is pushing up on the valve.
You leave a foot of so hanging out so you won't loose any in there.
I just did two riding mower engines this way this month.


Let'd HOPE it is just a broken spring.
BTW if you know a machine shop, you can take it by and tell them what it's from and they will probably hand you a good used one for free.

Use a magnetic pick up tool to catch the valve retainer keepers after you push the spring down. The you hope you can pull the valve up by hand, or wrap shop cloth around it and use pliers.
It should move freely and come up just as far as the other ones.

 

[Atman246]

Hey Fordgirl,here's a question. When you put the air to the cylinder and you said you heard the hissing from down below. Where was the down below? I'd try the air again and listen at the tailpipe and also from the dipstick tube. Pull the oil dipstick out and listen. Tailpipe,exhaust valve issue,dipstick,holey piston Batman. I'm still leaning towards the valve spring being the issue. That being said,if it's a broken spring,you should be able to move the spring and valve freely. Not very much mind you,but if there's no spring tension,then it could move. You did say it wouldn't move at all. That leads me to think bent valve. If it comes to that and you end up pulling the head,then you'll need to hold timing chains in place etc etc. I'd be inclined at that point to replace chains,guides and tensioners. That's where I was on my 5.4l 3 valve until i pulled a camshaft bearing and found a pooched cam. New used engine for me,but i'm doing all of the above plus a new oil pump. My two cents again. Good luck.

 

[Atman246]

I just went back and looked at the pics from Aug 23. The one pic looking down on the two cams,with your arrow on it,i see the valve spring and it "looks" like it's up,as in the spring isn't broken and the valve should be closed. I'm hoping i'm wrong and the pic is deceiving. Can you get your hand down there and wiggle that spring from side to side? If so,it's broken. That would be a good thing.

 

[Fordgirl01]

This is getting discouraging. I was busy most of the weekend but planned on making progress today on he Navigator. I got my rope ready, turned the camshaft (clockwise) until cylinder was at the lowest point. I then kept turning until it started to some back up. I wadded maybe 4’ of rope in there and poked it down in until no more would go and left a long piece out. I turned the camshaft again waiting for it to feel like it was binding against the rope. It never did and it was at the high point. I pulled the rope back out to try again-rope was all there. So began to turn the shaft again and it suddenly will not turn anymore. The camshaft stopped turning but the end of the bolt still turned a little so I stopped. I did see if it would move the other way (counterclockwise), but it does the same thing. I then tried the other camshaft and it seems bound up too.

So it appears to be at the highest point. I stuck the camera in there and it looks like the piston is right there at the top and the camshaft lobe is on top.

I got my spring compressor tool so I’m the meantime I am going to see if I can make that work just to push on the spring. I won’t try to take it out obviously. I see I am going to have to unhook the steering arm as that is right where I need to be.


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[Fordgirl01]

Hey Fordgirl,here's a question. When you put the air to the cylinder and you said you heard the hissing from down below. Where was the down below? I'd try the air again and listen at the tailpipe and also from the dipstick tube. Pull the oil dipstick out and listen. Tailpipe,exhaust valve issue,dipstick,holey piston Batman. I'm still leaning towards the valve spring being the issue. That being said,if it's a broken spring,you should be able to move the spring and valve freely. Not very much mind you,but if there's no spring tension,then it could move. You did say it wouldn't move at all. That leads me to think bent valve. If it comes to that and you end up pulling the head,then you'll need to hold timing chains in place etc etc. I'd be inclined at that point to replace chains,guides and tensioners. That's where I was on my 5.4l 3 valve until i pulled a camshaft bearing and found a pooched cam. New used engine for me,but i'm doing all of the above plus a new oil pump. My two cents again. Good luck.

It wasn’t really hissing....more like losing air almost as fast as it was going
In. I don’t have a compressor so I was using an air tank.

The spring doesn’t move so I’m guessing it won’t be that “simple”! I’m still hoping the spring is broken and just somehow wedged tight, but my optimism is starting to wane.


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