I'm starting this thread for all of us confronting the dilemma - timing job, engine replacement or get rid of the truck.
I’ve seen lots of comments regarding reman suppliers (and opinions about them) but not a consolidated thread. I hope this information helps anyone else facing this predicament.
This is not an uncommon dilemma with the 5.4 3V:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MARIUcyEnSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcN_WcGr4BU
I know this subject has been addressed in older threads such as this these:
https://www.expeditionforum.com/thr...-replacements-sources-2012-2wd-limited.52369/
https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/reman-crate-motor-vs-timing-job.50514/
https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/engine-seized.50354/
My situation:
My 2006 Eddie Bauer Expedition has just past 182,000 miles. The truck is used as a daily driver and regular tow vehicle for travel and utility trailers. I have put 40,000 miles on it. It spent 8 months towing a trailer 13,000 miles two years ago. The interior and body are immaculate. The transmission was replaced at 135,000. I have replaced the suspension, (shocks, upper control arms, ball joints) and tires within the last 5,000 miles.
I recently relocated, using the truck as a tow vehicle on a few separate trips. Immediately afterwards I began to notice what I thought was an exhaust leak that is only audible when gassing the engine under load. Maybe a misfire due to old spark plugs(?). Listening more closely and trying to isolate the sound, I think I am also hearing the tell tale ticking of rocker roller bearings going bad on the passenger side. Started it this morning and heard what sounded like a rattle from the engine for a second, then normal idle.
So it would seem that in addition to my potential ignition issue, I likely also have a timing issue to address.
In my current location, I do not have a driveway or garage, but a sandy/dusty/windy parking area. Not somewhere I want to crack things open to do a timing job. So, I am confronted with a decision - pay someone to do a timing job/tune up, replace the engine or ditch the vehicle for something new.
Prefer to keep it, as my family loves it and most of the things that will go wrong, have gone wrong and been repaired - except the engine! To obtain a new (to me) vehicle providing the same level of comfort and towing ability would require a significantly greater cost than that of the repair.
So, tune up and time or replace?
I am leaning towards replacing it for the following reasons:
Below I list a few options I have discovered during my research. The prices are approximate and may or may not include things like install kits, warranties or delivery. Some companies have different options in terms of upgrades you can choose from too. The prices and links are to the 5.4 3V that would fit in my 2006 expy.
Jasper - $6-$7000 depending on options. They claim numerous improvements over stock design to address common failure issues. The company advertises direct relationships with shops they list as preferred installers on their site. For someone without a good relationship with a mechanic (my situation now) could be a good solution. Their site is a little opaque. Much higher prices than other sources. Because they incorporate their preferred installers into their webpage, not sure if that includes installation? Highly doubt it.
Would be interested to hear from anyone who understands how the pricing structure with this preferred installer works. Are the shops paying Jasper a price closer to what the less expensive remans are charging, then pocketing the markup on top of labor costs?
https://www.jasperengines.com/products/gas-engines/featured-engines/ford-triton/
Direct from Ford - $5600 not sure if any improvements have been made to address the OEM design flaws.
https://parts.ford.com/shop/en/us/e...e-5gx694xaa-6gx692xaa-54l-p-5l3z6006brm?pdp=y
Fraser - $2700-$3500 depending on options/upgrades. Similar to Jasper, their higher priced option claims multiple improvements over stock design to address the common failure issues.
https://fraserengineco.com/5-4-liter-ford-triton-3-valve-engine/
Promar - $3200 No options, but claims multiple improvements over stock design to address the common failure issues. Looks like unlike the options from some other companies, timing chain cover, valve covers, oil pan, etc… are not included. Something to consider if you are weighing prices to have this done as the labor hours from removing, cleaning and replacing the ones from your old engine will add up.
https://www.promarengine.com/engine-details.php?pn=FO5.4-06
Powersource - $3800 No options beyond install kit, but claims multiple improvements over stock design to address the common failure issues.
https://www.ford54engines.com/product-page/ps5404w3tunp
Powertrain - $3900 They claim improvements in phaser and spark plug issues over stock design.
https://www.powertrainproducts.net/FORD-5-4-V8-ENGINE-04-06-F150-NAVIGATOR-EXPEDITION-p/1579.htm
If anyone has experience putting any of these into their expeditions - either by their own hand or paying someone else - please provide feedback regarding your experience.
If you would like to recommend any reman companies to the discussion, please do add them.
Finally, from everything I have read, there is not much hope of replacing the 5.4 3V with a DIFFERENT engine, due to the complexity. Obviously, anything can be done if you spend enough money. But, if there is a relatively straightforward option out there, would love to hear about it.
Thank you.
I’ve seen lots of comments regarding reman suppliers (and opinions about them) but not a consolidated thread. I hope this information helps anyone else facing this predicament.
This is not an uncommon dilemma with the 5.4 3V:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MARIUcyEnSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcN_WcGr4BU
I know this subject has been addressed in older threads such as this these:
https://www.expeditionforum.com/thr...-replacements-sources-2012-2wd-limited.52369/
https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/reman-crate-motor-vs-timing-job.50514/
https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/engine-seized.50354/
My situation:
My 2006 Eddie Bauer Expedition has just past 182,000 miles. The truck is used as a daily driver and regular tow vehicle for travel and utility trailers. I have put 40,000 miles on it. It spent 8 months towing a trailer 13,000 miles two years ago. The interior and body are immaculate. The transmission was replaced at 135,000. I have replaced the suspension, (shocks, upper control arms, ball joints) and tires within the last 5,000 miles.
I recently relocated, using the truck as a tow vehicle on a few separate trips. Immediately afterwards I began to notice what I thought was an exhaust leak that is only audible when gassing the engine under load. Maybe a misfire due to old spark plugs(?). Listening more closely and trying to isolate the sound, I think I am also hearing the tell tale ticking of rocker roller bearings going bad on the passenger side. Started it this morning and heard what sounded like a rattle from the engine for a second, then normal idle.
So it would seem that in addition to my potential ignition issue, I likely also have a timing issue to address.
In my current location, I do not have a driveway or garage, but a sandy/dusty/windy parking area. Not somewhere I want to crack things open to do a timing job. So, I am confronted with a decision - pay someone to do a timing job/tune up, replace the engine or ditch the vehicle for something new.
Prefer to keep it, as my family loves it and most of the things that will go wrong, have gone wrong and been repaired - except the engine! To obtain a new (to me) vehicle providing the same level of comfort and towing ability would require a significantly greater cost than that of the repair.
So, tune up and time or replace?
I am leaning towards replacing it for the following reasons:
- I don’t have a good mechanic I trust locally to do internal engine work.
- Warranty on new engine.
- New engine means all the other things that I anticipate failing in the near future will get replaced with install kit (pulleys, hoses, water pump, etc…)
- reman engines mitigate underlying design flaws of this engine with machining improvements (supposedly)
- Cost of paying shop for timing job and tune up seem to be ~60-75% of the cost of replacing the engine
Below I list a few options I have discovered during my research. The prices are approximate and may or may not include things like install kits, warranties or delivery. Some companies have different options in terms of upgrades you can choose from too. The prices and links are to the 5.4 3V that would fit in my 2006 expy.
Jasper - $6-$7000 depending on options. They claim numerous improvements over stock design to address common failure issues. The company advertises direct relationships with shops they list as preferred installers on their site. For someone without a good relationship with a mechanic (my situation now) could be a good solution. Their site is a little opaque. Much higher prices than other sources. Because they incorporate their preferred installers into their webpage, not sure if that includes installation? Highly doubt it.
Would be interested to hear from anyone who understands how the pricing structure with this preferred installer works. Are the shops paying Jasper a price closer to what the less expensive remans are charging, then pocketing the markup on top of labor costs?
https://www.jasperengines.com/products/gas-engines/featured-engines/ford-triton/
Direct from Ford - $5600 not sure if any improvements have been made to address the OEM design flaws.
https://parts.ford.com/shop/en/us/e...e-5gx694xaa-6gx692xaa-54l-p-5l3z6006brm?pdp=y
Fraser - $2700-$3500 depending on options/upgrades. Similar to Jasper, their higher priced option claims multiple improvements over stock design to address the common failure issues.
https://fraserengineco.com/5-4-liter-ford-triton-3-valve-engine/
Promar - $3200 No options, but claims multiple improvements over stock design to address the common failure issues. Looks like unlike the options from some other companies, timing chain cover, valve covers, oil pan, etc… are not included. Something to consider if you are weighing prices to have this done as the labor hours from removing, cleaning and replacing the ones from your old engine will add up.
https://www.promarengine.com/engine-details.php?pn=FO5.4-06
Powersource - $3800 No options beyond install kit, but claims multiple improvements over stock design to address the common failure issues.
https://www.ford54engines.com/product-page/ps5404w3tunp
Powertrain - $3900 They claim improvements in phaser and spark plug issues over stock design.
https://www.powertrainproducts.net/FORD-5-4-V8-ENGINE-04-06-F150-NAVIGATOR-EXPEDITION-p/1579.htm
If anyone has experience putting any of these into their expeditions - either by their own hand or paying someone else - please provide feedback regarding your experience.
If you would like to recommend any reman companies to the discussion, please do add them.
Finally, from everything I have read, there is not much hope of replacing the 5.4 3V with a DIFFERENT engine, due to the complexity. Obviously, anything can be done if you spend enough money. But, if there is a relatively straightforward option out there, would love to hear about it.
Thank you.
