Is it a King Ranch or XLT?

[ExplorerTom]

It sucks. But what are you going to do about it?

Next time you spend a bunch of money, do a little research first. You've signed into a legally binding agreement. I'm assuming you did so on your own free will. You agreed to sign up for a loan on THAT vehicle for THAT price.

In this day and age with internet in our pockets, you have only yourself to blame for being under-prepared. When you saw "King Ranch" and weren't familiar with that, YOU should have researched what that entails. Nothing says "King" quite like a cloth interior.

The dealer cut you a check when you returned and complained. They didn't need to do that. They could have said: "tough shit, you signed up for that price, you're gonna pay that price".

 

[rexster314]

I can't understand how someone could mistake an XLT for a KR. There's three KR badges on the 12 KR, plus the first and second row seats have a big King Ranch seal on the seat backs. Sure like to see a picture of this hybrid KR

 

[k9education]

Just for a quick comparison

Nada on a 2012 Ford Expedition-V8 Utility 4D King Ranch 4WD $34,825

Nada on a 2012 Ford Expedition-V8 Utility 4D XLT 4WD $27,975

This was done quick without taking into consideration options and mileage for either model

I wonder if the person that says forget about it still feels the same after seeing the comparison

Yeah that's huge.

Since this was my first Expedition experience, I was naive, but I feel like the dealership should've known better.

I'd look into the statutes on fraud, such as this one:

Intent to injure or defraud, how charged.

545.170. It shall be sufficient in any indictment for any offense where an intent to injure, cheat or defraud shall be necessary to constitute the offense, to allege that the defendant did the act with such intent, without alleging the intent of the defendant to be to injure, cheat or defraud any particular person; and on the trial of such offense, it shall not be necessary to prove an intent on the part of the defendant to injure, cheat or defraud any particular person, but it shall be sufficient to prove that the defendant did the act charged with an intent to injure, cheat or defraud.

In other words, it only needs to be proven that the seller intended to defraud someone, not you specifically. If this is a Ford dealership, they would have had the sticker and an Oasis report that would clearly tell them which trim level it is, not to mention the fact that the sales and service departments would be familiar with the various trims to at least a reasonable degree.

 

[k9education]

OP, have you Googled the VIN on the truck? You can often find ads for weeks after the truck has sold cached by various car sites. If they advertised the truck as a King Ranch, then you have grounds to pursue this. If you have nothing, well then you just have a hard lesson.

 

[robereg]

It's not at all uncommon to immediately be upside down on a loan when you buy from a dealer.

Cars are rarely an investment. Forget about it. Drive it. Enjoy it.

Oh, I'm well aware of that fact. Regardless, whether it was an investment was not the point of my concern. The concern is that they misrepresented a car to me, and now my car is of considerably less value than originally believed. And now, I likely will have to purchase gap insurance, or be more aggressive on my monthly payments -- situations that I had hoped to avoid.

 

[robereg]

It sucks. But what are you going to do about it?

Next time you spend a bunch of money, do a little research first. You've signed into a legally binding agreement. I'm assuming you did so on your own free will. You agreed to sign up for a loan on THAT vehicle for THAT price.

In this day and age with internet in our pockets, you have only yourself to blame for being under-prepared. When you saw "King Ranch" and weren't familiar with that, YOU should have researched what that entails. Nothing says "King" quite like a cloth interior.

The dealer cut you a check when you returned and complained. They didn't need to do that. They could have said: "tough shit, you signed up for that price, you're gonna pay that price".

If the dealer was crooked and didn't care about legal consequences, then yes, they could've said "tough shit." Thankfully, they accepted blame -- to a degree -- and tried to do something positive.

Should I have done more research on King Ranch? I sure as heck should have. (I did say earlier that I did a VIN search pulls it up as "XLT/King Ranch." And a Ford customer service woman told me over the phone that it was, indeed, a King Ranch. That was enough for me.) But even more so should have the saleswoman. When I went back, yesterday, she said she swore she thought it was a King Ranch. Next time, I won't be so trusting.

But thanks for the sermon.

 

[robereg]

I can't understand how someone could mistake an XLT for a KR. There's three KR badges on the 12 KR, plus the first and second row seats have a big King Ranch seal on the seat backs. Sure like to see a picture of this hybrid KR

Not sure if you've followed this from the beginning, but if one does a carfax and a VIN search and talks to Ford customer service, he will be told that it is a King Ranch. Being unfamiliar with Expedition trim levels, I had no reason to doubt any of those sources, including the sales people, who told me that it was a KR.

 

[robereg]

Yeah that's huge.



I'd look into the statutes on fraud, such as this one:



In other words, it only needs to be proven that the seller intended to defraud someone, not you specifically. If this is a Ford dealership, they would have had the sticker and an Oasis report that would clearly tell them which trim level it is, not to mention the fact that the sales and service departments would be familiar with the various trims to at least a reasonable degree.

Given that Ford customer service, a VIN search, and carfax report all assert that this is a "XLT/King Ranch," I gave the dealership the benefit of the doubt that it was an honest mistake. (I spoke to 2 different Ford customer service people, and asked them to do a VIN search, and both said it was outright a King Ranch.) The saleswoman felt badly/remorseful. I took their peace offering, but it still stings. Oh well. The world goes on.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Bedrck47]

The following was pulled using a vin number from 1 2012 King Ranch Expedition that is for sale and was on the internet.

The vin was entered on ford etis and came back with the following

I did not copy the full list but did copy the part that clearly shows it is a King Ranch Version


* Illustration shows model only

Expedition (2003-), 5.4L 3V V8, White Platimum


VIN Number: 1FMJU1H5XCEF47178

Primary Features
Build Date: 24.04.2012
Vehicle Line: Expedition (2003-)
Body Style: 4 Door Wagon
Version: Ford Series
Engine: 5.4L 3V V8
Transmission: 6 Speed Automatic Trans (6R80)
Drive: LHD RWD
Axle Ratio: 3.31
Emission: With 49 State/Non Green State Req
Air Conditioning: HD ATC Air Conditioning
Territory: (+)"USA"
Paint: White Platimum

Minor Features

• Charcoal Black Interior
• Leather 2 Tone
• Front Suspension Skid Plate Only
• With Power Liftgate
• With Under Floor Stowage
• 119"/3023MM Wheelbase
• King Ranch Version
• (-) Version Packages
• Less Special Purpose Vehicle
• Kentucky Truck Plant Build
• Less Convenience Group
• Less Special Value Packages
• With Memory Pack
• Feature Content Group 1
• With Roll Stability Control
• With English Language Label
• Owner Hand Book Pack
• With Electric Rear Quarter Window
• With Privacy Glass
• With Mini Overhead Console
• Flowthru Console With Leather Lid
• Memory Adjustable Foot Pedals
• With Carpet Floor Covering Level 1

Your vin should show the same if it was a King Ranch

 

[rexster314]

Or the OP can use this to look at his original window sticker

Use your VIN number to get Ford Window Sticker

 

[robereg]

The following was pulled using a vin number from 1 2012 King Ranch Expedition that is for sale and was on the internet.

The vin was entered on ford etis and came back with the following

I did not copy the full list but did copy the part that clearly shows it is a King Ranch Version


* Illustration shows model only

Expedition (2003-), 5.4L 3V V8, White Platimum


VIN Number: 1FMJU1H5XCEF47178

Primary Features
Build Date: 24.04.2012
Vehicle Line: Expedition (2003-)
Body Style: 4 Door Wagon
Version: Ford Series
Engine: 5.4L 3V V8
Transmission: 6 Speed Automatic Trans (6R80)
Drive: LHD RWD
Axle Ratio: 3.31
Emission: With 49 State/Non Green State Req
Air Conditioning: HD ATC Air Conditioning
Territory: (+)"USA"
Paint: White Platimum

Minor Features

• Charcoal Black Interior
• Leather 2 Tone
• Front Suspension Skid Plate Only
• With Power Liftgate
• With Under Floor Stowage
• 119"/3023MM Wheelbase
• King Ranch Version
• (-) Version Packages
• Less Special Purpose Vehicle
• Kentucky Truck Plant Build
• Less Convenience Group
• Less Special Value Packages
• With Memory Pack
• Feature Content Group 1
• With Roll Stability Control
• With English Language Label
• Owner Hand Book Pack
• With Electric Rear Quarter Window
• With Privacy Glass
• With Mini Overhead Console
• Flowthru Console With Leather Lid
• Memory Adjustable Foot Pedals
• With Carpet Floor Covering Level 1

Your vin should show the same if it was a King Ranch

Thanks for the info.

I'm only going by what the saleswoman, Ford customer service (2 different agents), carfax, and Googled VIN search gives me: "XLT/King Ranch." As I said earlier, both Ford customer service agents told me over the phone that my VIN identifies it as "King Ranch."

 

[robereg]

Or the OP can use this to look at his original window sticker

Use your VIN number to get Ford Window Sticker

Thanks. It does state that it's an XLT. Wish I would've done this, at the dealership. But when I have 4 other sources telling me it's a King Ranch, what's a guy to do? Move on to another car, I guess. Wish I would have. Thanks, again.

 

[Bedrck47]

Expensive lesson to learn

 

[k9education]

If the dealer was crooked and didn't care about legal consequences, then yes, they could've said "tough shit." Thankfully, they accepted blame -- to a degree -- and tried to do something positive.

They took you for what? About $7K? If I could get you to quietly go away for even $1K, I'd write you a check on the spot. They certainly knew what they were buying when they purchased it from the previous owner. Dealerships won't drop a cent unless they know precisely what they are getting and how much potential profit is in it for them. So they forgot between the time they purchased it and the time they sold it to you? I'll believe that the salesman could made an honest mistake if and only if this was not a Ford dealership, but the sales manager sure as heck knew what it was regardless.

Given that Ford customer service, a VIN search, and carfax report all assert that this is a "XLT/King Ranch," I gave the dealership the benefit of the doubt that it was an honest mistake. (I spoke to 2 different Ford customer service people, and asked them to do a VIN search, and both said it was outright a King Ranch.) The saleswoman felt badly/remorseful. I took their peace offering, but it still stings. Oh well. The world goes on.

Thanks for your advice.

I'm not buying any of this. Yes, Carfax/AutoCheck reports it as XLT/King Ranch, but anyone working at Ford Motor Co. or a Ford dealership knows it can't be both, so that would urge them to dig further. Ford Motor Co. is referencing their own database only. They're not using Carfax, Google, or any other third party site. They're using an internal system that very clearly indicates whether a given vehicle is an XLT or King Ranch. Moreover, they have access to the window sticker, which very, very clearly states whether it is an XLT or King Ranch. (See example). At this point, I'm beginning to doubt your honesty.

 

[robereg]

They took you for what? About $7K? If I could get you to quietly go away for even $1K, I'd write you a check on the spot. They certainly knew what they were buying when they purchased it from the previous owner. Dealerships won't drop a cent unless they know precisely what they are getting and how much potential profit is in it for them. So they forgot between the time they purchased it and the time they sold it to you? I'll believe that the salesman could made an honest mistake if and only if this was not a Ford dealership, but the sales manager sure as heck knew what it was regardless.



I'm not buying any of this. Yes, Carfax/AutoCheck reports it as XLT/King Ranch, but anyone working at Ford Motor Co. or a Ford dealership knows it can't be both, so that would urge them to dig further. Ford Motor Co. is referencing their own database only. They're not using Carfax, Google, or any other third party site. They're using an internal system that very clearly indicates whether a given vehicle is an XLT or King Ranch. Moreover, they have access to the window sticker, which very, very clearly states whether it is an XLT or King Ranch. (See example). At this point, I'm beginning to doubt your honesty.

I'm not on here to convince you of anything. If you want to doubt me, go ahead. I merely asked for advice, and relayed to everyone, here, what was told to me by various other sources.

A Ford customer service woman told me it was an XLT, then called me back about an hour later, to leave a message that said it was instead a KR. Confused, I called back and spoke to another cust srv agent, who reiterated that it was a KR. I don't know what they were using, but that's what they told me.

Why would I come on here to be dishonest? I'm a busy man; I have more important things to do than to tell tales on some random message board.

Just for kicks, I called Ford again, a few minutes ago, and talked to a 3rd agent. She said it was an XLT. Not 10 minutes later, she called me back to say that after a little more research, she confirmed that it was indeed a KR. I kept her on the phone, and pressed to her to look further. She then said that the U1H body code is used for both XLT and KR. So, that confused her even more. She said she needed to do more research, and agreed to call me back. After a couple more minutes, she called back to finally confirm that, while the body code is the same as the KR code, the equipment group code (200a) confirms that it's an XLT.

That's 6 phone communications with Ford Customer Service -- with 4 changes of answers -- to finally confirm to me, what you guys told me in a matter of minutes.

 

[kawi_200]

For a final check, have you tried that Ford VIN window sticker site that was posted? I tried it with the VIN's from a couple craigslist Expy's and they matched the Expy's pictures and what the sellers said. I tried my VIN, but my Expy is too old and they don't have the window sticker for it.

 

[rexster314]

For a final check, have you tried that Ford VIN window sticker site that was posted? I tried it with the VIN's from a couple craigslist Expy's and they matched the Expy's pictures and what the sellers said. I tried my VIN, but my Expy is too old and they don't have the window sticker for it.

He's already done that in message 32 above

 

[igozumn]

With regards to the differing answers from Ford customer service, I don't doubt they didn't know or kept changing their answers. Most of them don't have a clue. I get calls all the time from them, telling me (Ford dealership parts guy) that they had a customer call because their part hadn't come in, and that it was on backorder, and if I could please tell them, when the part was going to come in.

Soooooo, Ford is asking me, when the part from Ford is coming in????? LOL.

The last time I had "that" call, I told the lady on the phone after having one of those days, truthfully, I had 30 other people that were also waiting for the same part. All I heard was silence on the other end of the phone, as she processed the info and realized that her special snowflake customer wasn't so special.

We joke around all the time that all they'd have to do is probably lean back to the person in the cubicle behind them to get the status of the part. Or across the hall, etc. But in reality, they probably aren't even in the same state, if even in the same country.

I suspect they would be getting their info from someplace similar to the window sticker info posted above. We use Ford's internal HVBOM (historic vehicle build of material) and VCIS (something something darkside) to pull info. Usually listed under "version" or "version packages" it'll say, "XLT Version" or in the case of the VIN I just ran off ebay, "King Ranch Version".

For the people chastising robereg about not knowing what he was buying, I've had people at my counter looking for a part that cannot even tell me what year of vehicle they just spent $60,000 on 2 months ago, that they drove to our dealer in search of said part. Just the way some people are. Have a friend of mine that when we'd go to a new restaurant, be "that guy" that is holding up the line because he hasn't been paying attention to how the line works. I do, LOL. My wife, for years, knew that her car was "red" annnnnnd a "Daytona". After that, not a clue. The guy that sold me my '03, I'd asked if the CD player works. He was just a flipper, working 2 jobs, one as a police detective. Took him at his word. Guess what I found out when I got home?